outsourcing white collar jobs
moving production outside the states loss of blue collar jobs
influx of immigrants from a country that is a $H&T hole.
McCain and Obama have no idea how to fix any thing
the dollar is worthless now
China is a growing superpower So is Russia and India.
Russia would love to destroy us and china wants to own us
The Usa being in bed with Israel only causes more problems in the middle east
I feel the Usa will probably crumble in about 7 -10 years.

7 to 10 years? no freaking way..... but eventually.... yes it will... everything does.

As far as russia..... I've actually worked with russian pilots when I was in the air force..... sure they where rude, and russia likes to screw with us.... but the rusian plane we where loading was as American C-5 with russian engines WTF..... we trade and do buisness with the country.... they need us.... although I'm sure they would take out country if they could have it.... they are not a superpower in any means compared to us.... most of there military technology comes from us..... and we make sure they don't get enough that they can equal us.

To be honest.... the only "superpower" in the world is the USA.... and it's sadly the only one that we need to worry about..... our country will destroy itself before someone else does.

I understand how you feel... but from a different angle...

What we NEED to do is stop going to war with our neighbors (within the US) and start focusing our attention on the ones actually controlling us... It's called devide and conqure... and our country is doing a damn good job at it.... most of the points you posted where actually put into your mind by our own goverment to keep you mind busy while they think of more ways to screw us over...

The day will most likey never happen..... but if everyone in the world suddenly woke up and opened there eyes to reality.... and saw things for what they really are.... maybee things could start changing.

we are kinda like Rome in the year 340 AD.....

hell, they out sourced there military...wait, we do that too.

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

carnivorous mouse wrote:outsourcing white collar jobs
moving production outside the states loss of blue collar jobs
influx of immigrants from a country that is a $H&T hole.
McCain and Obama have no idea how to fix any thing
the dollar is worthless now
China is a growing superpower So is Russia and India.
Russia would love to destroy us and china wants to own us
The Usa being in bed with Israel only causes more problems in the middle east
I feel the Usa will probably crumble in about 7 -10 years.

not sure how you can say with confidence Obama or McCain dont know how to fix anything. opinions are opinions and thats fine, but dont speak as fact when you or I or anyone else cant prove that.....yet

also, if I remember correctly our dollar value is starting to go back up. obviously not back to par of what it was, but still going up none-the-less.

and 7-10 years? wow

The problem is and has always been that when a country lives in splendor (like the US and most of the Western countries) people totally lose all direction and begin to focus on nothing except their own selfish needs. I hate to say it, but if everyone had 2 kids and spent all their money only on their house, you'd have a much better country. Because every time you buy something you're making rich people even richer and they're the ones who are screwing you.

Technically the human race is a self-organizing "system" but the problem is this system tends to naturally organize itself like Las Vegas. Slums and Casinos, with nothing in between. Poor people are stupid and squander all their money, and rich people are greedy and hoover up every last bit of wealth until there's nothing left. It's as simple as that.

Communism never worked as a system. It was put in too few hands and extremely prone to corruption. However, that doesn't mean Capitalism is all chocolates and roses. The problem here is that once it's deregulated, it's like hungry dogs and meat. Also, when things become tense, like now, the cycle of greed tends to worsen with people completely losing sight of anything except getting as rich as they can as fast as they can. Right now the US is in the gutter because there's more money to make elsewhere. When Hollywood asks money from Bollywood, you know there's trouble a-brewin.

The only solution to this problem is to out@!#$ it. Have a bunch of kids, 4 or 5 per couple. Won't fix all your problems but it'll create a lot more Merkins to deal with the problems. Bound to be a Teddy Roosevelt in there somewhere.

AHH

Teddy!

yes, I am all for making the middle east a US Terrotory!

Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

I think people should watch 3 videos on the net..very intresting and give alot of insight into how the us is being and has been run...at the very least makes you wonder.

Look on google video for:
Who killed the electric car
Loose change
Zietgiest

Basically since the begining its been bush and family causeing @!#$ to make money...at any cost...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:16 PM

This might sound dumb to most of all of you, but I truly do have faith in our government. Now, I am not saying that they are 100% honest with the general public, or that any of our elections really mean @!#$. But there are some rich bastards out there on our side that want our economy to do well for their own sakes. Plus, it is really hard for anyone to really tell what the economy will do. For example. I live in southern Maine. Canadians come down to Old Orchard Beach wearing their speedos since the dollar was 2:1 almost. Now that Canadian dollar is worth even just a little bit more, they come down in droves, and we make money hand over fist. I dont think anyone really knows how to predict the economy except for a select few elite.

Taetsch Z-24 wrote:we are kinda like Rome in the year 340 AD.....

hell, they out sourced there military...wait, we do that too.

Chris

AMEN! Finally someone elses eyes are open I have been sayin the same damn thing forever!
You can only go so far before you collapse on yourself!
We are just about there.

Dj Little Big Man wrote:

Taetsch Z-24 wrote:we are kinda like Rome in the year 340 AD.....

hell, they out sourced there military...wait, we do that too.

Chris

AMEN! Finally someone elses eyes are open I have been sayin the same damn thing forever!
You can only go so far before you collapse on yourself!
We are just about there.

I disagree with that. The Roman Empire still exists. If you wanna get all technical about it, the Empire has lived on as the whole western world. Not only that buy it lasted as a proper Empire a crapload of a long time. If you count the entire span of it's existence, it lasted almost 2,600 years! The Roman Kingdom started in 753 BC and lasted until 509 BC when it became the Roman Republic, then that lasted until 27 BC when it became the Roman Empire. Then the Empire split into two in 395 AD and became the Western and Eastern Roman Empires. The Eastern Roman Empire (Also known as the Byzantine Empire) Lasted until 1453. It was only the Western Roman Empire that technically fell in 476, but then it only stayed down until it rose again from it's ashes to become the Holy Roman Empire in 996. Know how long that one lasted? Until 1816.

Countries come and go, but people stay forever. Just ask the Germans, their country's changed it's name about 10 times in 200 years, they should know.

Yeah, the United States of America with it's constitution and the whole declaration of independence may die off, but Americans are who they are. You don't need a country or a flag to be yourself and to have your values.

Ahh, but that Declaration Of Independence IS MY Values, with MY Constitution.

Burn all the bureaucrats, reincarnate, Teddy, and Reagen, Set the Marines up and call it even.

Chris


"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

Knox: by that logic, it could be said that yes, the US will live on, but in a much smaller state than original. Hell, draw your line--the Mississippi,. the Rockies, whatever, but it goes to say that the US could be split into to wheras one of the parts "lives on", and the other eventually outstrips the power of the old one.

However, your logic on the western roman empire rising again is a bit flawed. The original roman empire and the holy roman empire both were very different "civilizations" as it were. They are about as connected as the Mayan and Aztec empires.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

If it ever happened, I doubt it would come by enemy invaders but by internal disintegration. I would be curious how the USA would break up. Would each state become a country? Would New England combine all the states into a country? Would the South become the Confederacy again? I'm sure the West Coast states would become their own entity, the Rocky Mtn States another, and then the Plains States. Texas and New Mexico would probably get swallowed by Mexico. lol.

I wonder if a fragmented United States would fare better than a united one. Hell, most of our states rival entire European nations in size.

Nah, we would split up like it show here on the JBO, in regions!




Chris




"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry

[quote=Keeper Of The Light™ (Strazca)]Knox: by that logic, it could be said that yes, the US will live on, but in a much smaller state than original. Hell, draw your line--the Mississippi,. the Rockies, whatever, but it goes to say that the US could be split into to wheras one of the parts "lives on", and the other eventually outstrips the power of the old one.

However, your logic on the western roman empire rising again is a bit flawed. The original roman empire and the holy roman empire both were very different "civilizations" as it were. They are about as connected as the Mayan and Aztec empires.

Well, yeah... the Roman and Holy Roman Empires are extremely different because they're seperated by over 1000 years and the latter is a recreation of Roman values by the same Barbarian hordes that conquered it. I mean, you could say the same thing about the Kingdom of England in 1008 and today's rather slightly different United Kingdom. In, even if you ignore the Holy Roman Empire, just take into account the East Roman Empire, which did not fall. It was just as transformed by it's long existence as the Western one. By the time the East Empire sort of petered out in 1453, it wasn't exactly the Rome of Claudius and Ceasar. If you last long enough your civilization changes, even if the borders of the country stay the same. Even in a country as young as the United States, you have massive changes every hundred years or so. The US of today isn't the one of 1808 or 1908, they share borders and history, but there were some profound societal differences.

I think that when the US does fall apart (and it will) it'll probably go along a North/South division. With the North affiliating itself with (or taking over) oil rich Canada and the South going to war with Mexico over land disputes. That way the Northern United States will be able to sell weapons to the South and profit off the conflicts without getting involved in them. Poor people would live South and fight to keep the Messicans out, while the Rich would live North in their mostly isolated little haven.

wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no one will ever touch us !!!!!!!! unless everyone turns into wyning little bitches like the communists in this thread. your all sad cause we live the best out of anyone in the world. what is wrong with you all!!!!!!!! the only problem i see in this country is a lack of leadership! not a lack of national greatness. usa mutha @!#$s

Personal opinion:
- The USA is dying because you allow individuals with personal agendas snow you into thinking they're the best thing since sliced bread (this goes for personal, professional, political...).
- Whatever the USA stood for in the beginning, died when Richard Nixon tucked tail and ran like a fucking coward.
- The erosion of Personal Responsibility (not legislated or court mandated) is chiefly responsible for most people losing faith in themselves, other people and corporations.
- Americans have been selling their souls for product for ages.
- People do NOT TRUST THE GOVERNMENT, and why should they? Partisan politics have been making liars out of good and dishonest people for too long.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Personal opinion:
- The USA is dying because you allow individuals with personal agendas snow you into thinking they're the best thing since sliced bread (this goes for personal, professional, political...).
- Whatever the USA stood for in the beginning, died when Richard Nixon tucked tail and ran like a fucking coward.
- The erosion of Personal Responsibility (not legislated or court mandated) is chiefly responsible for most people losing faith in themselves, other people and corporations.
- Americans have been selling their souls for product for ages.
- People do NOT TRUST THE GOVERNMENT, and why should they? Partisan politics have been making liars out of good and dishonest people for too long.

I would tend to agree, and yet disagree with some points

1. I would agree, the media in general has the ability to show things how they "really are", and that did start with Walter Cronkite and the fact that everyone trusted everything he said. Granted, he was truthful about almost everything if I remember correctly, the unfortunate thing now is everyone wants everything 2 seconds ago. I used to love CNN, but then I realized how much their stories change when more information shows up, and how they play to the ear that listens. Everything is "disturbing" or "to graphic to show" or needs to be censored (FCC is at fault here) and everything is BREAKING NEWS!...people just don't do enough personal reasearch because they have to much time invested into buying everything (ala point #4)

2. Nixon was a pansy, @!#$ starts to fly and instead of be a man and follow it through, he ducks out and lets everyone else take the heat...not only that but Vietnam and their "withdrawl with honor" BS was a load. I dunno if thats what you were talking about...

3. Agreed, its always someone elses fault, never the individual. immideate example, No Fault States, oh you t-boned someone going through a red light at 60 mph in a 30 while intoxicated? Oh, well its 90% your fault, but 10% the other persons, because they could have watched and avoided you...BS

4. 2 words...Consumer Whore

5. I agree, and those who are honest get caught up with everything and end up like the rest of them...even those who are young in politics...like Plato said "the only truly good politician is one who doesn't want the job, but does it because he has to"

With respect to Nixon, I was referring to the fact that he was a smart man that had the opportunity to build on the Good that came from the Kennedy/LBJ administrations, and had the opportunity to end the debacle of Vietnam long before the inevitable fall of Saigon... But, he chose to escalate not once but twice (if memory serves) and he ended up setting the US up for the major free-fall that they're in now by "Normalizing" trade with China.

Granted, trade with China is going to take place one way or the other (it's a consumer's market, 1/6th the world's population, you can't just ignore it) but the terms were just STUPID. For every dollar's worth of goods they import, they're allowed to export $12? No f**king way is the correct response.

That and the fact that when he was found out to have had a full and deliberate role in the Watergate affair, he didn't stand his ground. He was a crook, he knew it, and when he ran from the Whitehouse like a shamed cur and got his VP to pardon him for any criminal acts he may have committed while President... that stripped the integrity out of the Whitehouse, the President's office, the VP's office, and the political system on the whole. Resignation in the face of impeachment is yellow stained cowardice, cut and dry.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:That and the fact that when he was found out to have had a full and deliberate role in the Watergate affair, he didn't stand his ground. He was a crook, he knew it, and when he ran from the Whitehouse like a shamed cur and got his VP to pardon him for any criminal acts he may have committed while President... that stripped the integrity out of the Whitehouse, the President's office, the VP's office, and the political system on the whole. Resignation in the face of impeachment is yellow stained cowardice, cut and dry.

Amen


And I agree, the possibility of removal of troops from Vietnam could and should have been a first order of business, people knew the domino effect wasn't taking place, and probably, by the US getting involved it may have increased the possibility of it happening to other nations.


The china-world trade thing...I need to study that more to have a decent opinion...there are ways that it helps and ways that it hurts...I just don't know enough about it to make an informed decision

It's basically been the same thing with all asian-pacific nations. The imbalance was gigantic. Most european countries (Individually and the EU) had a 1:1 or so trade relationship with asian nations, the US being a gigantic consumer nation was happy with 10:1 (Import:Export) or worse, like with Korea, it's about 10,000:1... and no, I'm not joking.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Mike that thinking is so cold war 1950s Plain and simple. This country shoot itself in the foot by building a economy
on consumer spending and not manufacturing. F^&*ks it self by out sourcing every importing every thing and favoring imported goods. Then shoots it self in the foot by taking sides with Israel and making life difficult to get that wonderful oil. But where still 1 where still number in what? greedy lawyers, Doctors, desk jockeys, and illegal aliens. some one said i don't remeber who said once an nation stops manufacturing it is no longer a super power.

Unfortunately, 'National Greatness' is one of those intangables you really can't bet the farm on.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I've thought about this some more and I don't think we'll ever see the United-States "really" fall apart. Not for another few hundred years anyway. Like I said earlier, you might have a few border changes (all countries do) but for the most part it'll stay "America".

I still think you'll lose a few states down south eventually, but that's no big deal since there will probably be an annexation of Canada and the US by then. It'll be a win some/lose some situation. As for the illegal immigrant problem, that'll end very quickly once the legal Mexicans in your country start feeling the pinch. Mexicans, like the Italians and the Irish before them, aren't liked right now because they're not considered full blooded Merkins and their loyalty is always questioned. However, when's the last time you saw a sign that says "No Irish need apply" or heard someone question John Gotti's patriotism? Who here thinks that Italians are sending money back to Sicily? Name one time in living memory that someone complained about the shiftless Irish with their ten million babies lowering the standards of living wherever they move or how the Italians should learn english properly? Give Mexicans time to get confortable and middle class, then you'll see them fade into the national "whiteness" in the same way that every other Ethnic group like the French or the Scottish or the Italians or the Irish or the Polish have become indistinguishable from other "Americans".

All this current malaise was happened in 1908 and people will again be trouble in 2108. I wouldn't worry about it. Things tend to work themselves out. Don't get me wrong, life never becomes easy, but it works out.

I am a veteran of OIF 3. I have made my own conclusions on most of the ethics and tactics of the war and the out reach of the country. For the most part I think that each decision is made to benefit our country, with a few exceptions. When I walk in a store to buy something I try to make sure that I stick with a higher quality product that is produced in the united states. At times it is very difficult to do just because of all of the out sourcing. What I am getting to is only we as Americans can control what company's do. If we start telling a company that makes cars or whatever product that we are not going to buy the products that they are producing if they continue to out source the work. But in exchange we as Americans have to understand that the price of the product will raise, or we will have to bite the bullet and take a pay cut across the board. The last I heard from anyone they were not willing to take a pay cut. No company likes to be told how to run their business. Just as none of us would like it if the government would come in and tell us that we had to work this certain job and we could not argue about how much we made or the hours we work. Something has to give. It is great to see that their is so much talk over the subject. It just goes to show that we are not unaware of our nations problems. As has been the case of many of the empires and kingdoms that have been mentioned above. The citizens did not have the opportunity to vote and to have their voice heard. It was a death sentence to speak against a king or ruler. So maybe instead of thinking about it or complaining maybe you should move to Europe or get out and get the problems fixed. I was once told that it takes one leader to lead us to a change and if you are not the leader then lend your hand to a leader and help. I'm not trying to tell the world how to turn nor do I have the answers to the world problems. All I can do is support those who share my views of the situations and back them any way that I can. Change is not easy by any means. Just think about what has to happen for a law to change. This is a good thing the same process that it takes to change a law protects us from corrupt people from instituting a law that would hinder our progress in the world.


just some rants

I believe that the reason why we are in Iraq is to minimize the effects that a war would have on our country. If the war was on our soil it would raise the concerns and diminish our self security. We have been very relaxed in this country because no one alive (I believe, Except maybe Hawaii) has seen a war on our own soil.