alright....after reading almost everybody in the OT thread totally ripping this marine to pieces, wishing that he be hit with an IED or worse--captured, then tortured, and THEN killed--i have this question: are you for @!#$ real?
now before anyone starts in on me for posting this....I DO NOT CONDONE ANIMAL CRUELTY. if that marine did in fact toss a live puppy off a cliff, then he should be punished by the full extent of military law. but that should be the end of it. to wish death or worse on someone....? come on now!?!
i know that animal lovers tend to get extra emotional about these topics, b
ut had it not been a cute puppy dog, then this would have been a nonpoint. and you guys know its true.
so now i would like to ask everyone to take a deep breath, try to cool from the initial shock factor, and then post what you really think should happen to this guy, assuming the video is real.
and if you still think he should die a fiery death, try to explain to me how a human life is equivalent to that of an animal.
personally, i think he should be punished according to military law, as i stated above. and that should be it. military law is worse than regular, civil law, especially during times of war. beyond that, nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:26 PM
I don't think he should die, but maybe we should hang him over the edge of a cliff for a little while to let him know how it feels. Most people obey the law because they're scared of the consequences, apparently the consequences aren't bad enough for this guy, so they need to be made worse.
Well you are infact true about a few things have him punished to the extent of military law, have him and the other two dishonorbly discharged and be done with it.
One thing i will disagree on is the part were you say that human life and the life of an animal are different. They both eat, drink, breathe the same. Both have organs, blood running through there veins. Both feel pain, sadness, love, hatred. Both can break bones if fallen or thrown off a cliff and in the end both die and move on. So just because one species walks on two legs and the other four doesnt mean that they are any different from each other.
Say if that were a small child instead of the puppy what would be the difference between the two ? Like you said pet lovers take it a bit more then others do. I myself consider my dog and cat to be like to younger siblings they are part of my family no matter what.
Just think if this video got back to that soilders family, say he is married and his younger son or daughter sees her daddy who she thinks is the greatest father throw a helpless pup off the side of a cliff and then say opps oh well who cares. How do you think she/he would feel ?
He is supposed to be one of the most looked apon soilders a marine but it seems that they will let anyone into the military nowadays.
That hunk of beef you're eating didn't know what hit it. It was just standing there, then BAM, dead. No clue.
It certainly was not dangled over a cliff for a while and scared silly before it was killed.... That would make the meat tough.
The soldier should be discharged and then tried in civilian court for animal cruelty. The video should remian public and his identity not protected. The military should have no place for a soldier willing to kill the innocent. Civi courts likely have much tougher laws regarding cruelty towards animals.
Yes, I eat meat. I was raised on a beef farm. Domestic aniomal slaughter for food production is not at all comparible to tossing a dog off a cliff. Not even close.
PAX
PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
im alergic to everything healthy im a steak, chicken, beef, eater dont really see why this would have anything to do with the responses given.
I think Haha was a little confused by you saying a puppy's life is equal to a child's. It's not. If I was starving I'd kill and eat a puppy in a minute. Wouldn't bother me in the least.
Personally, I think the Marine was being an ass. Marines are raised tough and live tough, these aren't softies by a long shot. Their #1 job is to kill, straight and true. However, most Marines would see this video as being a pathetic example of an idiot trying to show off and look tough and achieving exactly the opposite. Marines are nothing if not strict in their belief that all Marines are one. You are the Corps and the Corps is you. If you do something childish and stupid, then the whole Corps looks bad.
The guy is USMC Lance Corporal David Motari from Hawaii. He has let down the Corps, I would not like to be him.
or the other two laughing and video taping either
Hahahaha wrote:That hunk of beef you're eating didn't know what hit it. It was just standing there, then BAM, dead. No clue.
That's bull@!#$ and you know it. Have you ever seen how animals are butchered, or even read/researched it slightly? Don't tell me that they don't go through highly painful activities before they actually die.
There's still a difference though. Killing for food and for fun are two entirely different things.
If he shot a dog because he was hungry and needed to eat, that might not be okay to some people, but it's understandable. If he walks up to a dog and shoots him in the face, then leaves the dog there to rot, it's just as bad as what he actually did.
HAHAHAHA, you said "Domestic aniomal slaughter for food production is not at all comparible to tossing a dog off a cliff. Not even close."
So, there isn't the prolonged fear and senseless killing, that's true. However, I've been on a chicken farm, and those birds are crammed in on top of each other, claws disemboweling each other, sometimes stuffed that way into shipping containers. And to kill them quicker, well, they pick up the live chicken, ram a hook through its feet, and attach the hook to a conveyer belt. The best carries to screaming chicken down then line, where its throat is slit....and while still alive sometimes, plunged head first into a vat of boiling water to peel the skin and feather off.
Same kind of stuff for red meat production too. Cramped quarters etc.
And hormone pills....some hormone replacement pills for women come from pregnant mares. The tie the mare's 4 legs to 4 posts and impregnate her. While she is in gestatatino, a catheter is inserted into her, and the fluids are drained and the hormone collected. Later on, a horse abortion is performed, and a few weeks later, she's pregnant again, tied to the posts.
No animal, baby seal, whale, porpoise is worth more than a human life. We have souls...they don't.
And if it had been a skunk, or a possum, or even a rat, it wouldn't have even been a blip on the news radar. Anything cute gets abused and omg, rip the dude's entrails out, cut off his head and pee down his neck...just for starters.
.
“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
Hahahaha wrote:That hunk of beef you're eating didn't know what hit it. It was just standing there, then BAM, dead. No clue.
It certainly was not dangled over a cliff for a while and scared silly before it was killed.... That would make the meat tough.
The soldier should be discharged and then tried in civilian court for animal cruelty. The video should remian public and his identity not protected. The military should have no place for a soldier willing to kill the innocent. Civi courts likely have much tougher laws regarding cruelty towards animals.
Yes, I eat meat. I was raised on a beef farm. Domestic aniomal slaughter for food production is not at all comparible to tossing a dog off a cliff. Not even close.
PAX
so you have seen the slaughter houses where cows are lined up one by one and walkedthru a pen in a line. im sure the cows in back didnt see everyone in front of them get hit by the large hamer in the head, and im sure when the cows didnt die im sure they didnt see the guy walk up and hit the cow with a hammer or slit his throat. im sure they dont smell the blood and see the cows in front of them being gutted. sorry but your responce doesnt wash dead is dead wether its thrown off a cliff or hit with a hammer.
the reason why for most people they dont connect the two is because rover is their best friend and pet that they live with day in and day out. and that steak was just some cow out on some farm somewhere that they didnt see or know.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
sndsgood wrote:the reason why for most people they dont connect the two is because rover is their best friend and pet that they live with day in and day out. and that steak was just some cow out on some farm somewhere that they didnt see or know.
Agreed.
The difference to me is killing for a reason, or killing for fun.
Harrington (Fiber Faber) wrote:ScottaWhite wrote:
No animal, baby seal, whale, porpoise is worth more than a human life. We have souls...they don't.
Prove it.
Let me take it a step further...since most are saying, "prove that flipper and spot don't have souls."
Prove that humans do.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I didn't read this entire thread, but here's my $.02 on why most people possibly reacted so harshly:
1.) It was a cute, harmless puppy (I have a 10-week-old Boxer right now and if anyone hurt him intentionally, I might be tempted to exercise one of my Mossbergs)
2.) Dogs are man's protectors--they can definitely hurts us, but most would die FOR us.
3.) These are the guys who are supposed to defend our country--we just don't expect this type of behavior from them (even though much worse has been done by them in the past)
4.) This size dog was defenseless because of his age/size and probably trusted the guy who eventually killed him--as sad as that is to say.
...hope this video is indeed a sick fake
sndsgood wrote:james brown had soul.....
HAHAHAHAH...
did this marin have a soul when he tossed the pup ? then laughed after he did it? dont forget about the other guy he just as guilty watching it. to laugh and not stop what happened should also be punishable.
sndsgood wrote:Hahahaha wrote:That hunk of beef you're eating didn't know what hit it. It was just standing there, then BAM, dead. No clue.
It certainly was not dangled over a cliff for a while and scared silly before it was killed.... That would make the meat tough.
The soldier should be discharged and then tried in civilian court for animal cruelty. The video should remian public and his identity not protected. The military should have no place for a soldier willing to kill the innocent. Civi courts likely have much tougher laws regarding cruelty towards animals.
Yes, I eat meat. I was raised on a beef farm. Domestic aniomal slaughter for food production is not at all comparible to tossing a dog off a cliff. Not even close.
PAX
so you have seen the slaughter houses where cows are lined up one by one and walkedthru a pen in a line. im sure the cows in back didnt see everyone in front of them get hit by the large hamer in the head, and im sure when the cows didnt die im sure they didnt see the guy walk up and hit the cow with a hammer or slit his throat. im sure they dont smell the blood and see the cows in front of them being gutted. sorry but your responce doesnt wash dead is dead wether its thrown off a cliff or hit with a hammer.
the reason why for most people they dont connect the two is because rover is their best friend and pet that they live with day in and day out. and that steak was just some cow out on some farm somewhere that they didnt see or know.
Getting hit in the head by a hammer? Maybe in the early 80's, now? No slaughter house I've seen has used that for human consumption grade meat, there's a thing called mad-cow, and this method tends to propagate it.
The other thing, most of the time, there's more than one slough (pronounced sloo, you oughtta get the terminology right), and they don't usually see/hear what the other animals are going through because:
- it will panic them, and good luck trying to settle 300-400 head of beef cattle that are spooked.
- Animals tend to kick when the initial punctures are made (usually you hit the carotid and jugular veins on the underside of the neck, and get the hell out of the way because if they're not tazed, they figure out that they're going to die.. and respond accordingly).
The difference between what these marines did (supposedly) and slaughter of Cattle: These marines did this because they were malicious and cruel and wanted to inflict pain on an animal that couldn't defend itself if it had to, killing cattle is what happens when life has to feed on life.
I don't wish harm on these marines, but they deserve punishment even if the video is a hoax, the same reasons apply.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I could def care less what happens to the Marine. You first have to prove the puppy was alive during the incident, and second if this was filmed in Iraq it will have to go under Military review and processing. So I doubt anything will be done to him maybe just a dishonorable discharge from the Marines. I remember years ago people were literally blowing up dogs on youtube and tossing them in a microwave as well. I think everyone is feeding into this way too much, and to suggest murder, why not put the death penalty to those who train dogs to fight as well.. I.e Vick..
Click Sig for Jersey GM's Official Website
I enjoy killing animals in as humane a way I can. Some just dont go down so easy. But in the end they are all tasty. I have eaten at least parts of every animal I have shot with the exception of varmints, and whatever meat was not consumed by me or my family was consumed by others. At the same time I also took great joy in the experience. Not nessicarily the actual taking of the animal, but the total package.
He "killed" a puppy. Big @!#$ deal. If it was a rat nobody (well maybe a few) would give a @!#$. I can think of a few dogs I would like to throw of a cliff. Even my cat hates them, he likes to smack one of them through the fence. Do I approve of his actions (assuming it was alive), no. Do I think he should be harmed, no.
Let me start by saying, I never wished death upon them, i just no longer care about them, and if they were killed, I wouldnt give to @!#$s.
Quote:
i know that animal lovers tend to get extra emotional about these topics, but had it not been a cute puppy dog, then this would have been a nonpoint. and you guys know its true.
so now i would like to ask everyone to take a deep breath, try to cool from the initial shock factor, and then post what you really think should happen to this guy, assuming the video is real. and if you still think he should die a fiery death, try to explain to me how a human life is equivalent to that of an animal.
personally, i think he should be punished according to military law, as i stated above. and that should be it. military law is worse than regular, civil law, especially during times of war. beyond that, nothing.
If had not been a cute little puppy, and say a full grown one, it would not make a difference. It isnt because he killed a dog, its how he did it.
Which leads to the point about how our lives are equal. No i do not belive that a human life and and an animal life our equivilent. However, thats just plain cruel. The guy is @!#$ up. Thats where my problem lies...
I def want him kicked out of the military....he makes the rest of our military look bad..
Quote:
i kinda think tabs you should have added in that replies must also note wether they are vegans or wether their steak eaters. i think the guy should be punished, and although im more of an eye for an eye guy its somewhat hard for me to say throw the guy off a cliff while im sitting at my dinner table downing a 20oz t-bone dinner.
This always comes up in these situations.
This is not the same as eating meat..If the guy had killed the dog for a reason, and done so humanely, i would have no problem with him. He could have possibly done it for a valid reason but he def didnt do it humanely...Therefor, theres no connection between eating meet and being a dickwad...
Quote:
That's bull@!#$ and you know it. Have you ever seen how animals are butchered, or even read/researched it slightly? Don't tell me that they don't go through highly painful activities before they actually die.
There's still a difference though. Killing for food and for fun are two entirely different things.
If he shot a dog because he was hungry and needed to eat, that might not be okay to some people, but it's understandable. If he walks up to a dog and shoots him in the face, then leaves the dog there to rot, it's just as bad as what he actually did.
I dont agree with the first part because things have changed sooo much over the years but the rest is 100% how i feel...
[quote=Keeper Of The Light™ (Strazca)]
Harrington (Fiber Faber) wrote:ScottaWhite wrote:
No animal, baby seal, whale, porpoise is worth more than a human life. We have souls...they don't.
Prove it.
Let me take it a step further...since most are saying, "prove that flipper and spot don't have souls."
Prove that humans do.
That was my point exactly.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
Rosario wrote:
I dont agree with the first part because things have changed sooo much over the years but the rest is 100% how i feel...
From what I've read/seen they still suffer quite a bit, but that's not really my main point anyway.
My main point is the difference between killing for fun, and killing for food/necessity. At least somebody here read/responded to my main point, and hey, they actually agree with it!
I also agree with the fact that he should be punished to the full extent of the military law and booted out of the marines. He gives the marines a bad name. My brother might not be the best example, but he saw the video and was like "God, that's the type of stupid @!#$s marines are", or something similar. We then had a 40 hour debate on why he thinks that, with me telling me he's a dumbass, because many marines and other military personnel go out of their way to help animals... I'm getting off topic here though.
The bastard deserves whatever he gets.
[quote=Keeper Of The Light™ (Strazca)]
Harrington (Fiber Faber) wrote:ScottaWhite wrote:
No animal, baby seal, whale, porpoise is worth more than a human life. We have souls...they don't.
Prove it.
Let me take it a step further...since most are saying, "prove that flipper and spot don't have souls."
Prove that humans do.
Bingo.
Scott thats got to be one of the stupidest things you've ever posted
. No animals life is worth a humans life because we have souls.
Get your head out of your ass. Humans are animals. We (animals and humans) have hearts, lungs, blood, brains, stomachs, hair, skin, eyes etc.... Hell our closest DNA relative is the chimps.
Quote:
We even share most of our DNA. Reportedly, the human and chimpanzee genomes differ by only 1.5 to 5 percent.
