1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
Each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.c om/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be betw een $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
http://wwwnationalpolicyinstitute.or...eportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/nihthtm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex
Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ".
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR
__________________

yet people still seem to think its ok for illegals to come here and drain off of our system....
*shakes head*

Oh goody, I get to say it first before the commies do...

Yeah and what about the billions and billions spent on say....a war of aggression in the middle east, cuz Sadaam wanted to kill daddy bush?

And, just so our "let's be different" friends don't feel left out: Remember boys and girls, guns dont' kill people....religion kills people...well, that and mindless politicians.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

ok now take those same numbers and see how much money is spent on citizens

(tabs) wrote:yet people still seem to think its ok for illegals to come here and drain off of our system....
*shakes head*

Exactly.

KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.

StrippedCav98 (Now Quotable) wrote:ok now take those same numbers and see how much money is spent on citizens

since its the war forum, i'll bite: should it matter how much is spent on our own citizens?

the fact is that its $350 BILLION per year spent on people who illegally come here. we could spend that on our own people and make their lives just that much better. take care of your own before you try to fix other people's problems. we have how many MILLIONS of americans w/o health care right now? or maybe we could funnel that money into our education system? or in tax cuts to those below the poverty line?

regardless, that is american money paid by american taxpayers and it SHOULD go to americans in one form or another.

Draft the f^ckers into the army, treach them the basics-nothing more(keep the cost down), and tell them that if they come back they can stay.

Tinkles wrote:Draft the f^ckers into the army, treach them the basics-nothing more(keep the cost down), and tell them that if they come back they can stay.

THEY already do this.



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Hmm, obviously i didnt know that

ScottaWhite wrote:Oh goody, I get to say it first before the commies do...

Yeah and what about the billions and billions spent on say....a war of aggression in the middle east, cuz Sadaam wanted to kill daddy bush?

And, just so our "let's be different" friends don't feel left out: Remember boys and girls, guns dont' kill people....religion kills people...well, that and mindless politicians.

.

in order to enroll students each year. Parents most have the following:

1. Birth certificate of their children.
2. Last years income tax return.
3. Social security cards with both matching last names.
if they do not have those documents, they can not register to go to school.
if they do not pay taxes, they can not register to go to school unless they pay the out of state tuition fee.

if the student has a student VISA, then he or she should pay the out of state tuition fee for each semester and pay for their lunch.
if they do not pay their out of state tuition fee, then they can not register to go to school.
if they do not have a student VISA, they can not register to go to school

That is my solution to the problem.
it would take care of lazy people who only have children to receive tax benefits and it should take care of illegal alien kids.
And that's the bottom line. Cya! BOOM! IN YOUR FACE BABY!! WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott, you mean its taking your Gov't 800 billion dollars a year plus 338 billion dollars a year to figure out that something ain't working? SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Seriously, if 2 issues take up about 10% of your national budget (assuming it's about 12 trillion a year) you'd think that someone somewhere would twig it may just be time to try a new approach. I wouldn't expect you to figure that out though, it's why I pointed it out.

Robby: As I remember, a student on a Student Visa already has to pay a non-resident/out of state tuition fee (which is usually about double what a resident has to pay), however, most people under 17-18 (I forget what the new state dept guidelines are for this, it was 17 when I last checked but that was over 8 years ago) have to get a resident alien or permanent residency.

Most of the problem with the idea that you're talking about (ie schooling) is that until you get that resident alien/permanent residence visa, you can't get any of the tax registrations: the problem with getting the visa is that the Immigration & Naturalization Service issues a limited amount of these visas, and you MUST have an employment contract of at least 12 consecutive months sent to the INS before you even set foot on US soil (if there's an early termination clause in the contract, you're screwed). This is assuming you're talking about a younger student (high-school and under) that's living with their folks. For university students, a letter to the INS from the school's registrar instructing them that you're due to be enrolled in a course of study is usually enough to get a student visa, assuming the student renews the document themselves.





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

All I was saying was that if a student is not a US citizen, he or she has to pay the out of state tuition fee as long as they have a student visa.
if a couple illegal immigrants have a child here in America, but can not pay taxes because they're here illegal, that means they can not register their kids to go to school because they're not paying any taxes.
in order for them to pay taxes they have to go to the INS and apply for citizen ship, social security card, and pay a fine or something has to be done to receive a green card, work and then pay taxes. But the INS is not going to approve their petition because they came to the US breaking the law in the first place.
The INS no longer tolerates illegal immigration after september 11 2001. They will get deported back to Mexico or where ever they're from and the child has to go to.

or maybe we could funnel that money into our education system? or in tax cuts to those below the poverty line? "- TABS

1) Instead of funneling it back into a futile public education system, the right thing to do would be to lessen the tax burden on the tax payers.

2) Instead of giving "tax breaks" to those who live below the poverty line, who are there, mostly as a result of their own actions, and not paying an income tax anyway, we should lessen the tax burden on the folks actually paying taxes.

3) In America, if you are single (with or without kids), if you make less than around 13k per year, you get most, if not all of your federal taxes back. (earned income tax credit) I am all for this by the way. I draw the line when a person gets back more in tax refunds than they paid out in taxes. This most often happens with unmarried mothers. (see the thread on this forum about the EITC, and other non-related blather about how the rich are screwing us all and not paying enough in taxes.

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

ScottaWhite wrote:
2) Instead of giving "tax breaks" to those who live below the poverty line, who are there, mostly as a result of their own actions, and not paying an income tax anyway, we should lessen the tax burden on the folks actually paying taxes.

i hate that people always seem to assume that just because someone lives below the poverty line that its of their own accord and they are just lazy. get a clue, people!!
i live in one of the poorest states in our country (second only to miss). and, yes, while we do have our share of lazy @!#$ who soak up welfare, there is still almost a quarter of our population that lives below the national poverty line. but i know plenty of families who have both parents working one or two jobs a piece to scrape together a living for their children. the economy here sucks balls. and dont give me that "well then just move" bs either.....moving takes money, something that these people dont have

since it would be easy as pie to figure out who already gets government assistance and who doesn't, i don't see why we couldn't just give a bigger break to those working class families and individuals who live in poverty. to me that would make so much more sense than giving it to illegal immigrants. give it to your own citizens before you hand it out to people who arent even supposed to be here.

Joining the military does not = citizenship.


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Tabs,

If you look carefully, you'll see that I used the word "mostly". The vast majority of people that are poor are there as a result of their own poor decisions and current behavior. Such behavior includes, but is not limited to: Laziness, irresponsible credit history, unprotected sex resulting in pregnancies, which then can limit education and earnings potential. trying to live above one's means, (driving a 2008 model car, living in a rathole trailer or apartment).

There are of course, many outside factors beyond their control which contribute to the potential for being poor. You said not to give you that bs about moving, because moving costs money. Well, too bad. If you saved 50 dollars a month for 2 years (no fast-food, no cableTV, no blockbuster, no vacations, and collecting pop cans) you could have about $1500 to move your family. That's $500 for first months rent, and a thousand to move your clothes and beds. It's not impossible, just really hard. Sometimes you have to do the seemingly impossible to better your life. And of course, we cannot leave out the religious right-wing corporate white republicans who are out to screw America's working class and poor, while taking all the lollipops away from every little boy and girl.

As long as you are pointing the finger of blame at someone else, you'll never notice and come to grips that the root cause of MOST of your problems is you.

Lastly, please remember I said I didn't have a problem with those folks making less than 13k a year, getting back what they paid in to Fed Taxes. I think they should pay taxes, but in the current system we have, its the best alternative.

Some who is not paying taxes CANNOT get a tax break, unless you count property taxes, which they are not likely paying anyway.
.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

ScottaWhite wrote:Tabs,

If you look carefully, you'll see that I used the word "mostly". The vast majority of people that are poor are there as a result of their own poor decisions and current behavior.
.

thats still an ignorant, self righteous statement. i would wager that "most" poor people are actually hard working individuals who are trying to better their economic status. thats at least what i see day in and day out around here. its the small minority that ruin it for the rest.

change the welfare system to get the lazy @!#$ who are soaking it up off of it. but dont deride the poor, working class because you feel better than them.

You are entitled to your own opinion about my opinion. However, disagreeing with me doesn't make me wrong.

You see the economy based upon your paradigm. You see couples working 3-4 part time jobs between them, making $5.15 p/h.

That isn't the norm for most poverty "stricken" folks though. The norm is being wasteful of money you earn, or that which is handed to you. Why do you think that so many babies mommas start looking forward to next-year's tax returns a week after they get this year's? It's not because they bought a few neccessities such as non-brand name clothes and fixing the old car.

Here's what I see around where I live. Drive through some of the section 8 housing areas and you'll see late model cars everywhere. I'm not talking about the occasional CTS or Denali either. I'm talking about a "poor" person driving a 2007 Impala. Now would that person be less-poor if they had instead financed a 2003 Malibu or Cavalier? Yes. Would they be better off wearing Starburys instead of Air Force Ones? Yes. Would they be better off with rabbit ears instead of comcast digital cable? Yeppers.

This illustrates my point. A new car is a luxury that they do not need. Starburys will get them to school just the same as a set of $100 sneakers. And the 2003 Cavalier will get them to their 3-4 part time jobs just as quick as the $350 a month Impala.

And you know what? Its not just poor people that do this. Its everywhere. There are men that have worked for GM for 30+ years, that can't afford to retire because they still owe a lot on their house, and have no savings whatsoever. Why? For the most part, poor decisions. You can blame this that or they, but the bottom line is they weren't diligent with their finances. How else can you be making $25 per hour, living in a $90k house and still be living paycheck to paycheck.

My answer wasn' t self-righteous, because until very recently, I was stuck in the same vicious circle, so I know how it is to live check to check with nothing to show for it at the end of the year. I realized it later in life, that I needed to do without for a few years, in order to have more later on. I went back to college at age 29, and paid my way though (no grants or loans for whitey) and no help from family. I worked 60 hours per week, while taking a full load. I was tired all of the time, never had any spending money, drove a piece of junk 89 civic 4dr, and graduated.

Of course, I didn't smoke (saved $150 per month there), didn't drink, got no speeding tickets, paid my insurance on time, ate cafeteria food almost every meal, and shared a tiny dorm room with 3 other guys. It was difficult, it smelled bad, I hated it, but I'm done.

Who do have to blame for all of that?

.




“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

i will make a bet that 350 billion dollars used for the people who are a citizen of the US would do alot of good..

hell alot of people are homeless or poor...

alot of people stuff has a broken house, look at new orleans, you think they fixed that area yet? hell no


the government cares more about money than it does its people...

i say this because they can pay the illegals alot less than us...

and this is why capitalism sucks

ScottaWhite wrote:
My answer wasn' t self-righteous, because until very recently, I was stuck in the same vicious circle, so I know how it is to live check to check with nothing to show for it at the end of the year. I realized it later in life, that I needed to do without for a few years, in order to have more later on. I went back to college at age 29, and paid my way though (no grants or loans for whitey) and no help from family. I worked 60 hours per week, while taking a full load. I was tired all of the time, never had any spending money, drove a piece of junk 89 civic 4dr, and graduated.
.

your answer was self righteous, and from the sounds of it, ^^^ is why. good for you for pulling yourself out of the slump. for working class families there still isnt always that easy of an option. and if you look at the people rollin in caddies around your area, im willing to bet they are the ones soaking up welfare and housing and other govt assistance. not ones working their bones to the fingers trying to make ends meet so they DONT have to be on govt assistance.

perhaps you should come to visit our rural areas. these are mostly good, honest people who work their asses off so their kids have food and clothes. these are the people i want to give tax breaks to. not the ones who have 8 kids so they get more money come tax time...

Just what sort of tax breaks are you wanting to give them? Remember, you said they were living under the poverty line, so they really aren't paying an income tax anyway. What do you want for them? Do you want them to get more back on their refund than they paid out for the year? If so, then you want welfare for them too.

Instead of replying to how unfair life is, and whatever else, please tell me exactly what "tax break" you'd like to give them, and then secondly, who will pay for it.

/

.


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

Wow... Scottawhite a dunce 5 years ago, and after this comment... .

ScottaWhite wrote:Oh goody, I get to say it first before the commies do...

Yeah and what about the billions and billions spent on say....a war of aggression in the middle east, cuz Sadaam wanted to kill daddy bush?

And, just so our "let's be different" friends don't feel left out: Remember boys and girls, guns dont' kill people....religion kills people...well, that and mindless politicians.
.

Still a dunce today. You would think even with the lack of education or know how, that at least you'd pick up at least 5 years of wisdom. Null.
Do you actually think (if you do) that spending $600 billion on Iraq is justifiable? Do you even know what are "commies?" And I mean by mean text definition, NOT some right-wing media"s or a one-liner-politician's definition.
I'm not in favor of the spending done for the illegals, but you have to think that your right-wing politicians brought this BS upon this nation, mainly starting by Reagan's administration with their "look-the-other-way" laws when it comes to exploitation and not abiding to the minimum wage. You got your farming business paying unlivable salary at even lower wage then the joke of a minimum wage laws. No American will do it and NOT because they don't want to, it is because you can't survive at $2-4 an hour. But you know what... Central Americans will. Which is why we have a mass exodus of Central Americans in the US... and driving up the cost of issues on matters of this thread.



THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.

Actually Goodywrenches, you'd think after 3 years of my absence, you'd still be able to recognize sarcasm when you see it. The bit about "oh goody, I get to post if first" is a jab at those who sing the same song and dance the same dance every time a thread like this is posted.

And you jumped at the chance I see, albeit a little further down the posting line. Blaming Reagan. Now that's as original as us right-wingers getting caught doing something and then saying "well so did clinton, and clinton did this and that too."

Keep in mind you had 8 glorious years of clintonism, and somehow he never managed to plug the mass exodus as you call it. And things look the same with W. Bush too. But I'm sure its because the damage was already done by Reagan, who could expect anyone else to fix it...right? I also remember this thing called NAFTA....seems we had monkeys on both sides of the aisle pushing that piece of crap through.

I never even hit on the illegals bit. I simply took issue with the poverty, the sky-is-falling whining by someone else. ( who by the way, seems to be doing ok himself, as he has enough money to put some pricey mods on his cavalier, proving that if one tries hard, they can have more.)




“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

ScottaWhite wrote:Just what sort of tax breaks are you wanting to give them? Remember, you said they were living under the poverty line, so they really aren't paying an income tax anyway. What do you want for them? Do you want them to get more back on their refund than they paid out for the year? If so, then you want welfare for them too.

Instead of replying to how unfair life is, and whatever else, please tell me exactly what "tax break" you'd like to give them, and then secondly, who will pay for it.

/

.

a tax break can mean more than a lessening of the tax paid. and giving back more than they paid to begin with is hardly welfare. and can you please tell me what is wrong with trying to help people who are already trying to help themselves?