This was something that was pointed out to me this weekend. I'm going to present this in the form of a logical proof (i.e. If God is Love, and Love is Blind, God then must be Ray Charles).

Most of the people that consider themselves "Patriotic" (in the American sense) are Christian.
And in the Christian faith, one of the seven deadly sins is "Pride".
...
Then, aren't these people who have that "Power of Pride" bumper sticker some of the biggest hypocrites there are?

Now, before one of you gets a case of sillicavaginitis, i do realize that not everyone that is partiotic is christian, and not all christians are patriotic...


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Pride isn't bad. It's when pride lifts someone to think that they are better than someone else, that the person "below" them is a waste, that is when pride is considered bad in the Christian viewpoint.

For instance, I'm proud that I play soccer. I love the sport, every aspect of it, and when someone asks me if I play the game, I'll answer yes with a bit of positivity behind my answer. But this doesn't mean that if you play baseball, I look down on you, or mock you etc.

Again, pride goes with humbleness. Someone that boasts that they are humble is definately not. It all depends how much pride you have and the air of how you use it.


Correct me if I'm wrong.







Actually on second thought....cavy owners pwn those crappy civic owners. That is the only exception

ShiftyCav wrote:thats probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard. you should take that serpentine belt and wrap it around your neck.

If it wasn't a bad thing, then why would it be one of the 7 deadly sins?

I'm not necessarily disagrereing with you; i'm just putting this in context. If you are a christian, you sin if you have pride. Ergo, the conservative american patriots who have pride in their country are hypocrites.

Or for that matter any christian having pride in anything is a hypocrite--even pride in their own faith...

And that's not even limited to christianity--any religon believeing in the 7 deadly sins...


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Humility > Pride.

And the only way to attain humility is to be humiliated.

Bring on the hazings.

i think you have a skewed view of what the sin of pride is keeper. jace hit the nail on the head. but for a better explanation take the movie Seven. The girls that dies of pride dies because her face is mutilated and she doesnt want to live life "ugly" she had a phone in her hand. all she had to do was dial 911 and should would have lived. she would have been "ugly" or needed lots of plastic surgery to bring her face back to what it was, but she would have been alive. instead she chose to take the sleeping pills and kill herself because she was too proud of her looks. thats when pride becomes a sin. not beacuse you feel good about something

^^^But then it reverts to the whole issue of how "negotiable" God's word is based upon how his word is given/written. I.E. if the 7 Deadly Sins include Pride--and are thus negotiable as to what consititutes a hell-worthy level of pride, then why can't everything in God's word be construed as such? Thus, having pride is okay, as long as it's not self destructive. By that same argument, then being gay should be okay--until it becomes self-destructive.

The chances that the aforementioned is accepted is around the same odds that Bangladesh wins the Olympic Gold in ice hockey before 2008

Further, who is making that descsion--since it's definitly not God himself, and what is this person's credentials? How come this person has a say, or could piossibly know what God thinks--being a mere mortal. And if this person is dead--specifically long dead, how do we know that this person had the credentials, and what is being interpreted as correct now is what that person really said or meant?

Or even perhaps it is a translation artifact--in that the best-fit word was "pride". But if it's a translation error, then again, it goes to the argument of how much of the current written bible is *exactly* God's word, and how much of it can be a translation error.

So then, i put it to you (all) like this--for the sake of discussion: How do you know that there is a certain level of pride that puts it into a hellworthy trespass?


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

The 7 deadly sins was from Dante's The Divine Comedy, not the Bible. Ostensibly God's word is his word, what we see is what other people have written, interpreted and edited.

Other than that, I see what you're trying to say.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

You make a good point Keeper. The bumper sticker folks are hypocrits. Not because they are patriotic but because they display their patriotism for all to see. There is the pride. Being nationalistic is not a sin, but going around telling everyone you are for the purpose of self elevation is. Pride is not simply feeling strongly or "good" about something, it's showing off, displaying yourself, self glorification.

Ask yourself, is it for his glory or for mine. If you answered the latter, you have committed the sin of "pride"

Remember that Lucifer, Satan, etc, the fallen one??? You know why he got the boot right? Pride. Not because he declaired war on God but because he was so full of himself that he thought he could. There's a difference.

In Christianity, all things in moderation. Go ahead, drink but do not get drunk. That has been the message all along.

PAX




PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

The point was not mine, but my bro's. He just pointed it out--i thought it would be good discussion fodder.

What could be even scarier (or more humorous, depending on your world-view), is if we hold that "Pride comes before the fall", then the U.S. is doing into a nosedive not unlike Bronson Pinchot's acting career.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Well then pat yur brother on the back and congradulate him for identifying what I call "Sunday Christians" (or worse, "Christmas Christians"). They are all sunshine and roses for an hour or two a couple weekends a month, but in daily life, not Christian at all. They are everywhere. Not believers, but followers. Christ was an example to follow, not a religion to pretend to follow. We are supposed to try and live like Christ, not follow dogma.. He was all about braking the rules if it is for the benefit of the people. Great guy.

Oh ya.. Rome, the US.. Same stuff, years apart.

PAX




PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

Don't even get me started on the "American Empire". Just remember, unlike the U.S., Rome *actually* had civilization.

But i think it's less of the "Christian" aspect and more of the people wanting to be taken seriously without even thinking about what they are saying. If you're trying to say that we are a nation of "Proud, God-fearing Men and Women". then take a step back and think of what it implies.

First off, I can't speak for God because In my point of view God is a fundamental implausibility, but assuming that God Did exist--would God really want people to fear him--especially with the way that Jesus delivered his testament? Second, if Pride is a sin, then if you fear the one that decreed it as a sin, why the hell are you proud? It makes little if no sense to me.

To me it's a clear cut case of polarization--the lame "us vs. them" mentality; "for us or against us", which, much like some elements of society, simply won't wash.

And as for "Sunday Christians", Carlin had it right--the only reason they go to church is to have a place to go and compare clothing.



Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

First of all, the "7 dealy sins" are a roman catholic translation of the 7 things that god forbids from Proverbs.

Proverbs 6:16 – 19
In Proverbs 6:16 – 19, it is stated that "(16) These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:" (quotes from "King James Version (KJV)" translation of the Bible). These are:

(17) A proud look,
a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
(18) A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
(19) A false witness that speaketh lies,
and he that soweth discord among brethren.


I see the word pride nowhere in there.

Some people don't know the difference between fear and respect. I do not fear God at all, I do have respect. I kind of fear God's judgement, but whatever it is, I brought it on myself. God is not mean, if I thought God was, I might have fear. God the father, not God the mean nasty task master.

Sunday Christians are the ones who will say things like "Did see you in Church on Sunday" In a way that means you should have been there. It wasn't because they wanted to chat or something but because they have taken it upon themselves to be the moral judge of the community. I will ask them how that affected their relationship with God. They don't answer. Sometimes I ask them why they were looking, was the sermon from the pulpit not enough? Again they have no answer. God also know that life is life and sometime church (the building) just can't be done. Think of the farmer with cattle that are calving. Perhaps there is a breach birth or something. Would God rather the calf died and the farmer ignored his responsibility to his livestock to go to church (the building)? I think not. Bunch of jerks. There they are, right in church, passing judgement. Just plain silly. They missed the whole message.

PAX




PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

Or you can try this one too.

something to ponder you know.

Vice Virtue
Lust (excessive sexual appetites)
Gluttony (over-indulgence)
Greed (avarice)
Sloth (idleness)
Wrath (anger)
Pride (vanity)

English is a tricky thing.

What defination are you using of Pride. I bolded the one that I think should be used.

Def: Pride
a feeling of self-respect and personal worth
satisfaction with your (or another's) achievements; "he takes pride in his son's success"
the trait of being spurred on by a dislike of falling below your standards
a group of lions
unreasonable and inordinate self-esteem (personified as one of the deadly sins)
be proud of; "He prides himself on making it into law school"

Def: Vanity
amour propre: feelings of excessive pride
the quality of being valueless or futile; "he rejected the vanities of the world"
conceit: the trait of being unduly vain and conceited
dressing table: low table with mirror or mirrors where one sits while dressing or applying makeup

So all I have to do is NOT be a low table with a mirror for dressing or doing makeup and I'm golden? Awesome!

PAX




PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

A15: in your first post, having pride in/being proud of can be said to be close enough in synonymity that they could be considered about the same. A Proud race is one that has a lot of racial pride. Hence, where my logic was coming from.

Either way, and i think Hahaha (being more of a christian scholar than i could be), could back me up on this:

If part of christianity is a sense of humility and being penetant, then it could be said that vanity and/or pride is counter-productive to this. Part of humility is knowing that unlike God (at least what pretty much All Monotheism touts God to be), we are not perfect, then having Pride means that we are thinking ourselves perfect, rather than being penetant that we have faults.

As such, anyone that has, say, pride in their country is being totally blind to said faults, and belives that their country is all-perfect. Now, anyone with even a remotely small sense of history knows that every country and every race of people there are, and that ever was has a load of skeletons in their closet. America--yep. Canada--yep.

Further, having pride in your country is also a point of vanity. You're vain because you are, say, Sri Lankan, and Sri Lankans are better than everyone--according to you.

Something tells me that whether vanity is a personal or group thing, if it was written into proverbs, in whatever form, shouldn't lessen the fact one iota.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Your right, if you have pride to the point that for instance, I am better then you and you are dirt, then yes, pride is counterproductive to being a good Christian. There is nothing wrong with being prideful. I have pride in serving my country. Does this mean that I am perfect? No. I can never hope to be perfect. If I believe myself to be perfect, then I am diluting myself and having vanity to the point that it would displease my lord. There is nothing in the def of Pride that says to believe ones self to be perfect.

Am I correct to linking that you are trying to link the English def of Pride "to be proud of" to the the seven sins. There is nothing wrong with being proud. I have a son and I am proud of him. Even God was proud of his Son.

Keep in mind that not all def. apply at the same time.

Keeper of The Light

Keeper
someone in charge of other people; "am I my brother's keeper?"
custodian: one having charge of buildings or grounds or animals

Light
of comparatively little physical weight or density; "a light load"; "magnesium is a light metal--having a specific gravity of 1.74 at 20 degrees C"
(used of color) having a relatively small amount of coloring agent; "light blue"; "light colors such as pastels"; "a light-colored powder"
of the military or industry; using (or being) relatively small or light arms or equipment; "light infantry"; "light cavalry"; "light industry"; "light weapons"
not great in degree or quantity or number; "a light sentence"; "a light accent"; "casualties were light"; "light snow was falling"; "light misty rain"; "light smoke from the chimney"
psychologically light; especially free from sadness or troubles; "a light heart"
characterized by or emitting light; "a room that is light when the shutters are open"; "the inside of the house was airy and light"
unaccented: used of vowels or syllables; pronounced with little or no stress; "a syllable that ends in a short vowel is a light syllable"; "a weak stress on the second syllable"
easily assimilated in the alimentary canal; not rich or heavily seasoned; "a light diet"
friable: (used of soil) loose and large-grained in consistency; "light sandy soil"
clean: (of sound or color) free from anything that dulls or dims; "efforts to obtain a clean bass in orchestral recordings"; "clear laughter like a waterfall"; "clear reds and blues"; "a light lilting voice like a silver bell"
moving easily and quickly; nimble; "the dancer was light and graceful"; "a lightsome buoyant step"; "walked with a light tripping step"
(physics) electromagnetic radiation that can produce a visual sensation; "the light was filtered through a soft glass window"
any device serving as a source of illumination; "he stopped the car and turned off the lights"
demanding little effort; not burdensome; "light housework"; "light exercise"
of little intensity or power or force; "the light touch of her fingers"; "a light breeze"
a particular perspective or aspect of a situation; "although he saw it in a different light, he still did not understand"
luminosity: the quality of being luminous; emitting or reflecting light; "its luminosity is measured relative to that of our sun"
(physics, chemistry) not having atomic weight greater than average; "light water is ordinary water"
an illuminated area; "he stepped into the light"
faint: weak and likely to lose consciousness; "suddenly felt faint from the pain"; "was sick and faint from hunger"; "felt light in the head"; "a swooning fit"; "light-headed with wine"; "light-headed from lack of sleep"
a condition of spiritual awareness; divine illumination; "follow God's light"
flimsy: very thin and insubstantial; "thin paper"; "flimsy voile"; "light summer dresses"
the visual effect of illumination on objects or scenes as created in pictures; "he could paint the lightest light and the darkest dark"
abstemious: marked by temperance in indulgence; "abstemious with the use of adverbs"; "a light eater"; "a light smoker"; "ate a light supper"
a person regarded very fondly; "the light of my life"
less than the correct or legal or full amount often deliberately so; "a light pound"; "a scant cup of sugar"; "regularly gives short weight"
mental understanding as an enlightening experience; "he finally saw the light"; "can you shed light on this problem?"
having little importance; "losing his job was no light matter"
make lighter or brighter; "This lamp lightens the room a bit"
intended primarily as entertainment; not serious or profound; "light verse"; "a light comedy"
having abundant light or illumination; "they played as long as it was light"; "as long as the lighting was good"
idle: silly or trivial; "idle pleasure"; "light banter"; "light idle chatter"
light up: begin to smoke; "After the meal, some of the diners lit up"
public awareness; "it brought the scandal to light"
sparkle: merriment expressed by a brightness or gleam or animation of countenance; "he had a sparkle in his eye"; "there's a perpetual twinkle in his eyes"
designed for ease of movement or to carry little weight; "light aircraft"; "a light truck"
alight: to come to rest, settle; "Misfortune lighted upon him"
Inner Light: a divine presence believed by Quakers to enlighten and guide the soul
ignite: cause to start burning; subject to fire or great heat; "Great heat can ignite almost any dry matter"; "Light a cigarette"
having relatively few calories; "diet cola"; "light (or lite) beer"; "lite (or light) mayonnaise"; "a low-cal diet"
fall: fall to somebody by assignment or lot; "The task fell to me"; "It fell to me to notify the parents of the victims"
(of sleep) easily disturbed; "in a light doze"; "a light sleeper"; "a restless wakeful night"
a visual warning signal; "they saw the light of the beacon"; "there was a light at every corner"
lighter: a device for lighting or igniting fuel or charges or fires; "do you have a light?"
unhorse: get off (a horse)
easy: casual and unrestrained in sexual behavior; "her easy virtue"; "he was told to avoid loose (or light) women"; "wanton behavior"
lightly: with few burdens; "experienced travellers travel light"


What applies to your name?

Keeper: custodian: one having charge of buildings or grounds or animals
Light: having relatively few calories; "diet cola"; "light (or lite) beer"; "lite (or light) mayonnaise"; "a low-cal diet"

Custodian of The Food with Few Calories?

Actually, that would be

Custodian of the Animals with Few Calories...

[quote=Keeper of the Light™]If part of christianity is a sense of humility and being penetant, then it could be said that vanity and/or pride is counter-productive to this. Part of humility is knowing that unlike God (at least what pretty much All Monotheism touts God to be), we are not perfect, then having Pride means that we are thinking ourselves perfect, rather than being penetant that we have faults.

As such, anyone that has, say, pride in their country is being totally blind to said faults, and belives that their country is all-perfect. Now, anyone with even a remotely small sense of history knows that every country and every race of people there are, and that ever was has a load of skeletons in their closet. America--yep. Canada--yep.

Further, having pride in your country is also a point of vanity. You're vain because you are, say, Sri Lankan, and Sri Lankans are better than everyone--according to you.

Something tells me that whether vanity is a personal or group thing, if it was written into proverbs, in whatever form, shouldn't lessen the fact one iota.

I can agree with that. I don't know if thinking yourself perfect is even a requirement. It's the display. Bragging etc.

Again, ask yourself, Is it for God's glorification or for yours? Self glorification is the issue.

PAX




PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

A.15 wrote:Actually, that would be

Custodian of the Animals with Few Calories...

Ye of unending misinterpretations.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

So Keeper is some kind of "light" chicken farmer?!?!?

Somehow that just doesn't jive with my previously conceived notion of him.

PAX


PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)

A.15: That would all depend on your interpretation of what's right and what's not. Keep in mind, me, not being a christian, can have as much pride as i feel i can get away with

The thing is, most of the people i've met that display these bumper stickers are the stereotypical "freedom for all the people unless I think your wrong" type that, unlike you, are all for this war as long as they don't have the be in the sandbox. They are the ones that feel america is the best, and everyone else is dirt.

And no, I'm not a chicken farmer. That did make me laugh though... The best way i could describe what "Keeper" means is synonymous with the slovak word "strážca" which is similar to "guardian", in the sense of one who runs a "keep"--i.e. "The Light's Keep"

Although, if we take your definition, i'd probably be a farmer of the rare "tofudabeest"


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

[quote=Keeper of the Light™]A.15: That would all depend on your interpretation of what's right and what's not. Keep in mind, me, not being a christian, can have as much pride as i feel i can get away with

The thing is, most of the people i've met that display these bumper stickers are the stereotypical "freedom for all the people unless I think your wrong" type that, unlike you, are all for this war as long as they don't have the be in the sandbox. They are the ones that feel america is the best, and everyone else is dirt.

And no, I'm not a chicken farmer. That did make me laugh though... The best way i could describe what "Keeper" means is synonymous with the slovak word "strážca" which is similar to "guardian", in the sense of one who runs a "keep"--i.e. "The Light's Keep"

Although, if we take your definition, i'd probably be a farmer of the rare "tofudabeest"

lol

I will agree with you 2nd para. However, having served in the sandbox and been around the world, I would say that America is the best place I have been too. That's why people are pouring into this country and not out.

"freedom for all the people unless I think your wrong", this is wrong and not what this country was built upon, actually it's what we revolted against e.g. Britain.

Your right, it's all on how it's interpretted and the word pride was interpretted from the original writings. As with anything, you can have too much of a good thing. If you think you are so right to the point that everyone else is wrong and below you, IMHO, you need to check yourself - Christian or not.

I think that Jace had it right in the second post of this thread, any other discussion is just trying to find fault in Christians and Americans for the sake of doing it.

Quote:

As such, anyone that has, say, pride in their country is being totally blind to said faults, and belives that their country is all-perfect. Now, anyone with even a remotely small sense of history knows that every country and every race of people there are, and that ever was has a load of skeletons in their closet. America--yep. Canada--yep.

Again, I think you have a distorted view of pride. Here's the definition from Websters:

Quote:

1 : the quality or state of being proud: as a : inordinate self-esteem : CONCEIT b : a reasonable or justifiable self-respect c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship <parental pride>

I'm proud to be a Pittsburgh Pirate fan. Does that mean that I believe that they are "all-perfect" and that I'm "totally blind to their faults"? Heck no! I know that they aren't very good right now but I still like them.
Keeper, I'm assuming that your proud of your car. Does that mean that you see no faults in your car? Probably not. It's the same thing with pride in country, religion, ancestry, most anything.

It's not finding fault with Christians at all.. Christian pretenders are the targets here.

See, Christians don't do that kind of thing. Many who call themselves Christian would.

Jace was on the money, we just expanded and discussed it, as well as had a laugh. Enjoy the discussion.

Are you really proud to be a fan, or do you just like the Pirates? I mean really.. Proud to be a fan? Really? How so?

Proud of the team, sure. Enjoy the games, yup, root for them, oh ya, but proud to do so? Proud of what? Best collection of memorabilia? Proud of your season tickets? Loudest cheerer? Clap the loudest?

See, I don't think you are really talking about pride when you say yu are proud to be a fan. I'm having trouble coming up with a different word for it though... How about you are a big fan of the pirates? You are proud of their accomplishments?

See what I'm digging at here (with little success I might add)? See my point is that because you (I assume) are not a player on the team, are not an owner, a coach etc.. Then what is it exactly that you are proud of? Is the pride yours or is it theirs?

Anyway, this horse may well be dead.

PAX




PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)