Hey everyone. Long time, no see. I have Staff Duty at Battalion all night, so I thought I would stop over and see what was going on. This caught my eye, and I thought I would share.
Quote:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A U.S. military commander Thursday said a raid outside Falluja two days ago discovered a home-grown factory for car bombs that included a metal shop, explosives and cylinders of toxic chlorine gas and other chemicals.
Two deadly vehicle bombings this week and one last month used chlorine mixed with explosive devices, a new insurgent tactic.
The chemical attacks left at least 12 dead and more than 200 hospitalized in the past week.
Lt. Gen. Ray Odierno, commander of the Multinational Corps-Iraq, said U.S. troops discovered the canisters late Tuesday at a car bomb factory near Karma, about 12 miles (19 kilometers) northeast of Falluja. Both towns are in the Sunni-dominated Anbar province west of Baghdad.
"The unit discovered numerous artillery rounds, mortar rounds, bombs, rockets, gutted anti-aircraft shells, a pickup truck and three other vehicles that were already in various stages of preparations as car bombs as well as much detonation material," Odierno told Pentagon reporters via teleconference from Iraq.
"We also found ingredients to be used to devise or enhance explosives, such as fertilizer and chlorine cylinders. We also found the various components of a metal shop, including welders, burner stoves, circular saws, sanders and other items needed to build explosive devices."
Chlorine was employed by the military on both sides during World War I as a battlefield weapon.
Exposure to chlorine gas can cause difficulty in breathing, coughing, burning in the nose, throat and eyes, nausea and vomiting.
I don't know about any of you, but that scares the ever loving shiot out of me. What do you all think about this? I know a lot of units haven't even been unpacking their chemical gear out of Kuwait, no less carrying it with them because the thought of such attacks were thought to never happen. Proves us wrong.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
Interesting.. I'd wonder where they got the Chemicals and the know-how. Chlorine crystals or even Gel isn't all that hard to get your hands on.
The other thing, I'm wondering if troops know that they can minimize the effect of chlorine gas by using urine or water soaked towels. Plus, as I remember, the atomizing of Chlorine requires a LOT of the chemical to saturate the air to lethal levels or impairment levels.
As an aside, how the hell are ya, RaiLS? How's life in civilization treating you?
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I am doing great. Family is great. Civilian though? Dont know much about that yet. I am rotting at Ft. Carson doing Staff Duty tonight. Another wasted day.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
Lawl... That bites... I'm doing evening shift next week... joy.. last week of the month so people aren't doing the welfare dance yet...
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That sucks, there was another thing on the radio wed about the new threat of chemicals being used against us...
PHEW! Well its a damn good thing that Chlorine isn't DEADLY or anything! And how about the "crude" improvised chemical weapons the bad guys are starting to use?
Its just a damn good thing these don't count as WMD's cause then some people around here may have to eat some crow.
I hate to be I told you so BUT I TOLD YOU SO!!
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: you can make a chlorine gas weapon with bleach crystals, black powder, kerosene, parrafin wax and empty paint cans that you can get all from a hardware store.
I suspect that I may just have initiated a new HSA lockdown of all HomeDepots in the continental USA.
my bad...
Or you COULD get the chlorine liquid mixtures that are used in pool shock chemicals... (whoops, sorry Pool Supply stores) Or mildew remover (dang.. they're hitting more hardware stores... sorry!!!!)
Seriously, these wouldn't qualify as WMD's either... small yield (no MASS part) and its improvised. To top that off, there's nothing saying it existed in Iraq pre-invasion, and wasn't set up by Shi'ite or Sunnis, or by Fedayeen Hussein, or Al-qaeda.
Don't start cookin' that crow pie JUUUUUUST yet, chum.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:22 PM
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We've been in Iraq a long time, at this point I'm inclined to believe anything that is found, even if it was WMD, would have to proven in some way that it was there before the war started. Like some documentation. We haven't even found that, much less any weapons. And there is no way in hell such a large country could be so organized to cover it ALL up flawlessly. That's what I believe.
Onto the topic.... I've always said you just can't win a war like you used to. We had to carpet bomb the Germans into submission, and nuke the Japanese. You can't break the will of a people going house to house. So unless we're going to throw away our morals, make the world hate us and just beat the holy living crap out of the Iraqi people without regard for women and children, I just don't know how we're going to win this war.
We should really start a thread and see if anyone has any good ideas.
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NO MASS PART! Are you serious GAM? This is nasty stuff here! I transport thousands of gallons of it a day and BELIEVE ME when I tell you its bad stuff! If one of our tank cars would rupture it would kills thousands if not a million depending on where it would happen. Look into a train wreck a little while ago in Granitville SC or NC I can't remember but had that accident happened in say Chicago MOST of the city would have died!
BELIEVE me GAM this IS bad stuff.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: you're talking a significant difference in scale. Millions of gallons versus even 50... there's no comparison. The delivery methods are not at all sophisticated either.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070222/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_chlorine_gas
Quote:
Despite fears over the new tactic, some experts note the insurgents so far are not expert at it, meaning they may be causing widespread fear but not mass casualties.
Steve Kornguth, director of the biological and chemical defense program at the University of Texas in Austin, said the Iraq explosions are not "chlorine bombs."
"They are putting canisters of chlorine on trucks with bombs, which then puncture the canisters and release the chemical," Kornguth said. "But it hasn't been very effective because the high temperature created by the bombs oxidizes the chemical, making it less dangerous. "
Instead of dispersing chlorine gas — which causes death by inhalation — the heat from the explosion can render the gas nontoxic, Kornguth said.
In order to atomise the gas for dispersal, you have to have fairly sophisticated equipment, which is something that you're not going to make with crude tools... You need precision machining and metering equipment... and that's just not available in Iraq.
Even if it was, it's not likely that you'd have it in Iraq pre-invasion.
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GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:In order to atomise the gas for dispersal, you have to have fairly sophisticated equipment, which is something that you're not going to make with crude tools... You need precision machining and metering equipment... and that's just not available in Iraq.
Even if it was, it's not likely that you'd have it in Iraq pre-invasion.
I seem to remember 2 sophisticated mobile wepons labs we found burried in the sand. Remember those 2 18 wheelers we found? Would they count?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Proof?
ISG hasn't figured they were a big enough problem to report to the Whitehouse and Congress... I'd take their thoughts and reports over yours, no offence meant.
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GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Proof?
ISG hasn't figured they were a big enough problem to report to the Whitehouse and Congress... I'd take their thoughts and reports over yours, no offence meant.
Sorry bud you lost me there. Those trucks were found don't you remember them? And your right to take the reports of experts over mine thats why I brought up the trucks, they were reportd on by the EXPERTS as mobile chemical weapons labs.
Sooooo how do you take your crow?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/sprj.irq.no.labs/
"KARBALA, Iraq (CNN) -- The buried labs U.S. troops found last week were not the mobile chemical and biological weapons labs one U.S. Army general suspected, according to the head of an expert team brought in to examine them. "
Your crow is starting to get cold.
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Fork or spoon Jack?
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This is too easy. I need better adversaries. GAM, what do you and I disagree on?
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Tastes Great, Less Filling? Errrm... I don't drink "Lite" or Light beer.
Boobs or butt? I think we can both agree boobs... Booty lube is an automatic loose.
hrmm... I know we have disagreed...
V8 N/A or I4Turbo?
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Actually I'm an ass man and I'll take the V8? New thread?
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Sure...
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I just think it is a pretty freaky thing to have in the back of your head if you are over there knowing that these things are now being dispersed. At least I haven't heard of anything being used yet.
Big problem is that there are GIANT stock piles of chem weapons in GIANT wharehouses in Saudi. I know the Saudi Arabians and the Iraqi's are not "friends" and all, but how hard would it be to raid one of those joints and help yourself to Sarin, VX, ect. I just finished my NBC Defense course and am now the NBC NCO for my company. Just kinda makes me jittery.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
...and in other news, the Major of Falluja reports that his cabana was raided by american Peacekeeping troops last night...
Sorry, had to. I could have also put something about water or wastewater treatment, since they both can use chlorine as well.
When it comes down to it...ANYTHING can be a weapon of mass destruction if deployed right.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
RaiLS: It's even scarier that Saudi stipends (when not being used to make it possible to ski in the desert) are going to fund Al-qaeda.
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The instructor in the NBC Defense course was a rather talkative old man who had been to the golf war and then retired to work as a contractor in Saudi Arabia after the war managing and inventoring their chemical weapons stock. Of course, this is to be taken with a grain of salt, as is all second hand information or stories from someone. Anywho, he told of stories where he would walk into giant warehouses full of munitions laced with nerve, blood, blister, and choking agents where guards were missing or sleeping, had complete lack of inventory where hundreds of munitions were missing, and unsecure containment of these chemicals ran rampid. Just makes you think of how much of that stuff is out there, Iraq or otherwise.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
Rails but according to GAM Chlorine gas isn't that bad, heck its not even possible for it to be labled as a WMD. I mean come on man just cause its a deadly inhalation hazzard doesn't mean anything! And the rest of the chemical stuff found over there like the serin gas canisters, well they're pretty much harmless too right GAM & AGuSTiN. I mean hey Saddam wasn't such a bad guy right? we should never gone in and done what we did! So what if his regiem was the worst for human rights violations since Nazi Germany he wasn't really bothering anyone but his own people right? And hey if he wants to gas thousands of Kurds or run torture chambers what bizzness is it of ours? Nah we should never have bothered poor old Saddam he wasn't that bad! Kuwait, that was a silly misunderstanding! It could have been fixed if we all just hugged it out instead of going in with our troops the way we did. And how those troops had to were their chemical and biologial weapons suits was just overreacting to a bit of smoke! But hey that was the last war right? Too far in the past for anyone to possibly remember! And how when we got into Baghdad the troops were warned to stay away from the river cause of the levels of chemical weapons found in it doesn't really matter either! Hey a little Mustard gas never really hurt anyone right? I mean come on just cause it killed possibly millions of soldiers in WW 1 in the trenches in France doesn't mean its a WMD!
Tell me guys when you look at something do you do it with your eyes open? CHLORINE GAS, SERIN GAS, MUSTARD GAS = no WMD's ???? WTF! And you want to talk about needing a better adversary? How about your own ignorance. You think of WMD's as only nukes I guess and true he didn't have any of them. But you find a handfull of of this nasty stuff and somehow it doesn't count? You guys are just too funny! I didn't realize a # or date a weapon being manufactured had been placed on what a WMD we had to find. So what if it was only a couple canisters of Serin, each one could wipe out a population the size of DC. So what if Mustard gas is old school it'll kill you just the same. Oh for the record bullets are old school too can they still kill you? Or how about a big ass rock to the head? Thats as old school as it gets BUT YOUR STILL DEAD! And so what if the Chlorine bombs are crude I bet they'll still kill a bunch of people when they go off too. Since your so fond of useing links to try to proove people wrong heres a link that may just educate you both as to what a WMD is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wmd
Enjoy your crow, like you said its cold now.
I guess you guys will just never get it. You live in your world of rainbows and sunshine and think that the whole real world is like that too. Its a shame and I pity you for that, the only hope I have is that you never have to experence any of these out dated, old school, crude weapons for yourselves.
Peace guys.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Yack yack yack, again, nothing to support your ranting after constantly getting beaten down by links that prove you wrong.
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