I love how some pundits and government officials are calling the FOOTAGE of the Hussein execution deplorable. They're not mad he was executed or that it was near pandemonium at the execution, only that someone took video of it.
Since when did truth become so passe I ask?
Besides, all it shows that Saddam died like a man. Not the sniveling coward that "stood there shaking, confused and silent". An image of him as a beaten broken man that the propaganda department so desperatly wanted to sell to the public. He may have been my enemy, but I have to admire his guts. He didn't go out like a punk and died like the bad Mofo he was in life.
I'm amazed that anyone has any positive feelings towards the guy.
I'm completely against the war in Iraq, but there's no question in my mind that Saddam was someone that needed to die a long time ago.
I don't have positive feelings toward Hussein, but I have serious problem with the airing of execution footage.
You don't do it with prisoners here in the US, what's the deal with doing it to a foreign prisoner. It's a gross and indecent thing, but then again, looking for consistency in US media is a futile venture.... Sex is bad, but a guy getting beheaded, or hung... no problems.
Yeah... that's what I thought.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
us media blows donkey nuts
i never watched the video (i have no urge too) but he was a bad person who needed to be take care of...
was this on broadcast news or something? i dont have a TV and rely on my DSL as a connection to the outside world.
i have seen the vid online though and personally i dont think its that bad to show on TV. if it were as a pay-per-view, then yeah thats wrong. but this is news. as long as its not being glorified or demonized, whats the problem? show it as a piece of news and move on.
I don't agree with some double digit IQ talking head censoring things.
Put it all out there: the only way we know when something is awful, is if we see it.
If you're looking for the execution video, it's in the off-topic forum, it shows the beginning, the gallows opening and the death of hussein.
The problem that I have, and bare in mind that I've seen some gruesome sh*t, is not the graphic nature of the footage, its the fact that when it's Saddam Hussein, or his sons, or a Taliban/al-quaeda member, it's okay... it's something to make the people feel good about the war. When it's a US Civillian being beheaded (and taking a long damned time at it too.. I think it was about 12 minutes) its tragic and awful and gross.
Make up your damned mind about it. When you strip the ideaology away you have a human, and if you can't hack (pardon the pun) the fact that you're watching a person being put to death, TURN THE FEED OR TV OFF. It's grotesque, gross, deplorable, vile, nauseating, and yes folks, its real. Real as death can get. It's not pretty, dramatic, or even honourable when you kill someone that's caged.
My personal thoughts about it: why televise it? Seeing people die isn't cool or good or even worthwhile, especially when they're executed. It's pathetic really. All that pride or tears.. you're still dead. People don't need to see someone put to death... I started the thread in OT because people were asking for it. I found the beginning of the video, Jimmy found the rest... I'd rather you have the choice of watching it or not, than not allow it at all.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM: i saw the vid in OT and didnt think it was that bad at all. nothing gruesome in it.
Quote:
its the fact that when it's Saddam Hussein, or his sons, or a Taliban/al-quaeda member, it's okay... it's something to make the people feel good about the war. When it's a US Civillian being beheaded .... its tragic and awful and gross.
i think that is more a matter of respect. you dont have respect for someone who hides in a cave and orders suicide bombers to do their work. but you do have respect for a soldier just out doing his job, protecting his country. maybe thats not what the government and media are going for, but thats the difference in why i would show one and not the other if i were in charge. i'll agree though, i do have a problem with saddam being used as propaganda.
You didn't see the bale and noose snapping his neck, and you didn't see him kicking after it happened.
That was a very sanitary version of what happened, even the aftermath when they were carting the body away, you didn't see the neck distended and how sharply (or unnaturally) it's bent.
Seriously, I've seen the footage of what happens in every form of execution known to man, it's never pretty but you know the guy on the receiving end is going through hell.
I think that it's pretty grotesque WANTING to see it
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I don't have positive feelings toward Hussein, but I have serious problem with the airing of execution footage.
You don't do it with prisoners here in the US, what's the deal with doing it to a foreign prisoner. It's a gross and indecent thing, but then again, looking for consistency in US media is a futile venture.... Sex is bad, but a guy getting beheaded, or hung... no problems.
Yeah... that's what I thought.
To be fair, the whole footage of his hanging was never aired on any station in North America, everyone who saw it on here watched it on Youtube, or something like youtube. All they will show on network news are the preparations leading up to the hanging. We all know that this needs to be shown, along with his body, to prove that he is, in fact, dead. The same thing with a guy being beheaded, the only place to watch that is online. I watched the video of Saddams hanging and, to be honest, there's really not much to see. Sure, when you see him drop through the floor you know what just happened but the camera moves at that moment so you don't really see what happened. I think the video is more hype then anything.
degenerated wrote:I'm amazed that anyone has any positive feelings towards the guy.
I'm completely against the war in Iraq, but there's no question in my mind that Saddam was someone that needed to die a long time ago.
Dude, it's not like I had a big "I *heart* Saddam" t-shirt on. He was a brutal tyrant who murdered anyone in his way. His sons were rapist psychos and he knew this and let them go wild. Give me a sniper rifle and an opportunity and I'd have killed him with no hesitation and no remorse. Whatever the inconsistencies of the trial and the influence of the White House on his demise, he
deserved to croak. However, he DID die on his feet and not on his knees; and that's something I find admirable no matter who it is.
Sometimes, you gotta respect even your worst enemy when they show great courage or cunning. It's childish and rude to do otherwise.
I started watching it. I just couldn't finish it.
It seemed to barbaric. @!#$, they did it in some dirty @!#$ prision at the break of day.
I dunno, I guess I would have wanted something more "cliche" ya know? Have him out over the crowd in Baghdad or something.
I've never been a fan of capital punishment. I think it's wrong in every way imaginable. I guess for those people who pined for his death, I have just one question.
Do you feel better now that you know he's dead? If so, you are no better than he is, and you should be ashamed.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I don't have positive feelings toward Hussein, but I have serious problem with the airing of execution footage.
You don't do it with prisoners here in the US, what's the deal with doing it to a foreign prisoner.
I might have missed something, but the hanging was never shown on TV so I'm not sure where you got that from. I agree that executions shouldn't be shown in the media, and in this case, I don't think it ever happened.
Knoxfire wrote:Whatever the inconsistencies of the trial and the influence of the White House on his demise, he deserved to croak.
I kind of find the filming of the footage deplorable too. I admit, I watched the crappy dark version because of curiosity, but if you were in Saddam's shoes, wouldn't you rather die in private rather than as entertainment for billions of people? No matter how evil someone is, you should show respect in their final moments.
And I believe the White House wanted to delay the execution to Jan. 14 or so, but they relented because the Iraqi government strongly insisted to do it ASAP.
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ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.
Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.
Glace wrote:if you were in Saddam's shoes, wouldn't you rather die in private rather than as entertainment for billions of people? No matter how evil someone is, you should show respect in their final moments.
So my executioners can say how frightened and weak and broken I was at the end even when that wasn't the case? No way in hell. I'd want everyone to see my demise. No lies. No euphemisms. No hiding behind "respect".
Besides, they were heckling him and jeering and taunting him at the end. No one would have known about that unless the videophone footage came out. So I don't buy the "respect" argument. I seriously believe that they wanted to make him appear weak and broken, but now that this is impossible they're mad as hell that their propaganda won't work.
I've never been a big fan of lies, I don't care who tells them.
Knoxfire wrote:Glace wrote:if you were in Saddam's shoes, wouldn't you rather die in private rather than as entertainment for billions of people? No matter how evil someone is, you should show respect in their final moments.
So my executioners can say how frightened and weak and broken I was at the end even when that wasn't the case? No way in hell. I'd want everyone to see my demise. No lies. No euphemisms. No hiding behind "respect".
Besides, they were heckling him and jeering and taunting him at the end. No one would have known about that unless the videophone footage came out. So I don't buy the "respect" argument. I seriously believe that they wanted to make him appear weak and broken, but now that this is impossible they're mad as hell that their propaganda won't work.
I've never been a big fan of lies, I don't care who tells them.
My take ...His army beaten, his sons dead and all his power vanquished. looks frail right there .
Knoxfire : you seriously believe that they wanted to make him appear weak and broken ?
I have to disagree, i think it's the other way around. what would they have to gain from making him look weak and frail ? the hearts and minds of all the Iraqis that hated his $hit .. maybe, but the U.S. is still an invading army occupying there country .
What appears to me is that they wanted to show the Iraqi people how well
we did, in fact, treat that lil P.O.S... . the message being, ... we are Humane and dignified,
although anyone with a lil grey matter can see this as a weak argument, i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it wasn't indeed the facts.
look at the Civilian Death Toll in Iraq, even before the sectarian violence started , for an occupying army trying to win the hearts and minds of the people, you need to stop the B.S.
of running around here and there like a bunch of
kool-aid wagon Do-goodiers !
and come up with a real plan of action. dumbass neocons !
EzTrip wrote:
My take ...His army beaten, his sons dead and all his power vanquished. looks frail right there .
Knoxfire : you seriously believe that they wanted to make him appear weak and broken ?
I have to disagree, i think it's the other way around. what would they have to gain from making him look weak and frail ?
I have no idea, but the first reports after the executions were all about how scared and beaten Saddam was in the end. The high level government guy who was there was even quoted as saying that Saddam died wordlessly.
Just look at the edited HD footage that played on CNN. It totally reinforces the above.
Then we see the videophone footage... and well... you know...
So, I'm not guessing or anything like that. It's not an opinion. I'm just stating what was done. Once the phone footage was out they all backpedabled like a motherf**ker. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if they denied that any propaganda was ever attempted.
To be honest, I don't care about Saddam or how he was killed. They should have dragged him in the street with his wives and shot him like Nicolae Ceauºescu. We all knew he was guilty. It was pointless to bother with a trial. However, I am not a fan of political bulls**t. Which is why I almost (but not quite) feel sorry for the old Tyrant.
Smus ran out of posts wrote:I've never been a fan of capital punishment. I think it's wrong in every way imaginable. I guess for those people who pined for his death, I have just one question.
Do you feel better now that you know he's dead? If so, you are no better than he is, and you should be ashamed.
i do feel better he is dead. why shouldnt i? i am not ashamed nor should i be. death is a natural part of life, even when conducted and controlled by others. he was sentenced and his sentence was carried out by people who lived under his rule.
how can you not feel even the slightest bit better knowing that saddam is dead? do you feel he had any redeemable qualities that should have allowed him to live?
Smus ran out of posts wrote:I've never been a fan of capital punishment. I think it's wrong in every way imaginable.
I guess that makes you the most pro-life person in the building. I don't agree with your opinion on the subject but I can respect it. Now personally I am a fan of Capital Punishment - provided that they are 100% proven guilty - IMO it is the only thing I can call "justice" for certain crimes. I think it isn't used nearly often enough(except in Texas etc). In the case of Saddam though - giving him a trial was a formality since it was more than a little obvious of his guilt and of what he should have had coming to him.
Smus ran out of posts wrote:Do you feel better now that you know he's dead? If so, you are no better than he is, and you should be ashamed.
Yes. No it doesn mean that at all. And no I'm not ashamed. Next question.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
wikipedia wrote:
Held in custody by U.S. forces at Camp Cropper in Baghdad, on June 30, 2004, Saddam Hussein and eleven senior Ba'athist officials were handed over legally (though not physically) to the interim Iraqi government to stand trial for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. A few weeks later, he was charged by the Special Tribunal with crimes committed against the inhabitants of Dujail in 1982, following a failed assassination attempt against him. Specific charges included the murder of 148 people, torture of women and children and the illegal arrest of 399 others.
If you were to die "Smus ran out of posts" then it would be completely different. You can not put Saddam Hussein on the same scale as "normal" people... Death is the best thing that I could think that he deserves. Same goes for any person that has the balls enough to kill, torture, or just be so evil.
Standing up for someone like that makes you look ignorant.
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Reports I hear are that they taunted and tortured him all night before his hanging. The woke him every half hour, they showed him the noose and said "it's waiting for you" repeatedly and even when he was trying to pray in his last few moments they shouted the name of his enemies at him.
Let me be clear that I am against capitol punishment but I respect that the people he affected had the right to try and if convicted exercise whatever punishment. I feel shame for humankind that these barbarous practices are still going on. Taking a life will never give anything back. That said, I still respect their right to hang the man, and yes, he was a tyrant.
Could they not allow him to at least have a desent death? Could they not allow him to say his final prayers without the behaviour described? They proved, in front of us all, they they are no better than the man they hung. They should be very ashamed. Oh yes, a muslim guy I know said they killed him on a religious day as well. He said it'd be like killing a Christian on Christmas day.. Nice.. Really nice.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:Reports I hear are that they taunted and tortured him all night before his hanging. The woke him every half hour, they showed him the noose and said "it's waiting for you" repeatedly and even when he was trying to pray in his last few moments they shouted the name of his enemies at him.
Let me be clear that I am against capitol punishment but I respect that the people he affected had the right to try and if convicted exercise whatever punishment. I feel shame for humankind that these barbarous practices are still going on. Taking a life will never give anything back. That said, I still respect their right to hang the man, and yes, he was a tyrant.
Could they not allow him to at least have a desent death? Could they not allow him to say his final prayers without the behaviour described? They proved, in front of us all, they they are no better than the man they hung. They should be very ashamed. Oh yes, a muslim guy I know said they killed him on a religious day as well. He said it'd be like killing a Christian on Christmas day.. Nice.. Really nice.
PAX
I didnt hear of all that...
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It was the first day of Eid ul-Adha. It's not really like Xmas though.
Eid ul-Adha (Arabic: عيد الأضحى ‘Īd al-’Aḍḥā
occurs on the tenth day of the Islamic month of Dhul Hijja. It is one of two Eid festivals that Muslims celebrate. Eid ul-Adha is celebrated by Muslims worldwide as a commemoration of Prophet Ibrahim's (Abraham's) willingness to sacrifice his son Ismael for God. Like Eid ul-Fitr, Eid ul-Adha also begins with a short prayer followed by a sermon (khuṭba).
It is celebrated on the 10th day of the month of Dhul Hijja (ذو الحجة of the lunar Islamic calendar, after Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca in Saudi Arabia. This happens to be approximately 70 days after the end of the month of Ramadan.
Eid ul-Adha is three days long starting the day after the pilgrims in hajj (annual pilgrimage to Mecca by Muslims world wide) descend from mount Arafat.
Men, women, and children are expected to dress in their finest clothing and perform prayer (Salat) in any Masjid (mosque). Muslims who can afford to do so sacrifice their best domestic animals (usually sheep, but also camels, cows, and goats) as a symbol of Ibrahim's (Abraham's) sacrifice.
Saddam was just another sacrifice. Although I doubt they gave his meat to the poor.
Quote:
Taking a life will never give anything back.
I don't ever think that was the point of captial punishment. It's to get rid of someone who doesn't deserve to live.
Putting him in jail forever will never get anything back either, what's your point? What would your solution be?
Cinematography:
The video was horrible. For starters, the lighting was way too dark. And camera motion was as
if it was recorded during an earthquake, I mean, at least hold it steady and not jerk about so.
Acting:
And after the hanging, there should have been lots more twitching and jitting, like in a western movie.
Plot:
Way too abrupt. Throw a rope on, pull lever, I mean come on, this could have been so much grander
in developing the story.
I give it
