Ok, now I am no political expert or nothing by any means. I'm just some 18 year old living in a town with far too many people on welfare and government assist and have gotten just a little bit annoyed with the situation my province is in.
Man years ago when Europeans started coming over from Europe to North America, they signed treaties with the natives to avoid major problems, or so I've read in history books. I don't remember school too well. But should these treaties still be honored today? Sure, it was all find and good back then, but now, some of these natives are abusing the system. In my province (Manitoba) I am noticing a large increase in the native population. I don't know if it is the same in other places in North America, but I seriously think these people need to get jobs and start paying taxes. They live on their Indian reserved land, as well as on other land that isnt reserve, they use public services just like everyone else, but yet they are tax exempt? Why? A lot of them have it easy, the government pays the majority of the way, and if they have kids, they basically get a free ride from what I hear. This is going to obviously increase their population, and their numbers increase a lot faster than that of any other group of people in my province judging from statistics. Soon there won't be enough people to support these people, then what? They're all going to complain about it when it was them who got them selves in this situation in the first place. I think we need to start taxing them, and stop giving them all these benefits just because they're different. They're always talking about how much rascism is a problem, and yet I can barely walk down the street in my town without getting followed by a gang of people who call themselves the "IP" or Indian Posse. If they want to be treated like equals, they should start living like them in society.
I know I probably talked in a circle or missed some points that I meant to put down, but I'm a little tired...Discuss?
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good. 
LOL
Okay...
Manitoba is a little different, because there is a HUGE aboriginal population, but, the treaties that were signed were signed in perpetuity. Basically unless the Gov't wants to avoid paying out tons of money in redress, they might as well honour the agreements.
Now, due to the work of Indian affairs ministry and a few private groups, they're well represented. The problem is that most don't even live at the poverty line. Sure, they get things for free, and have hunting and gathering rights, but if you've seen what a lot of the reservations look like (Not only in Manitoba, but pretty much all over Canada), they're not exactly resort towns. The other thing to note is that while they have hunting and gathering rights, and taxation benefits, they do not have farming rights, and also don't have a lot of other options (as in developing their reservation) as most sub-divisions do.
One other thing: Native suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction and violent crimes rates are about 1000% higher per capita than the rest of Canada, and their functional literacy and mathematics scores are about 2/3 lower. This accounts for their gang mentality, because they have inflexible poverty just like blacks do in gang neighbourhoods. They're emulating a working model. The problem is that with an urban gang, they don't have to go far to find places to burglarise, or whatnot, Indians on the other hand have to feed on their own... They may get a "free ride," but I'd rather see them be able to compete on a real level with the rest of Canada.
As for the birth rates being higher: what do you think they oughtta do when they don't have enough schooling to hold down a job, and have no money for anything other than a bit of food and alcohol at the end of the dole? Seriously, they don't have it all that good.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
No, they don't have it good, but I personally think it's their own fault. Because they have their own reserves, they have a mentality of "Our native land, native people only". As a result, competent teachers, law enforcement, etc from other parts of the country aren't welcome there so they have to rely on their own inadequate supply of professionals. If they let other people into their lands and develop it economically, maybe the kids wouldn't see their future as hopeless and resort to drugs and crime. I don't know if you guys remember this but in a major newspaper (National Post?) there was a front page pic of kids ranging from 8-14 sniffing gas! The worst part? They were smiling and posing for the camera like it was an everyday thing, which it probably was for them.
I'm all for tradition and culture, but I think they need to get rid of the reserves and start catching up to the rest of Canada. It's the only way for them to be self reliant and not look to the government for everything.
______________________________________________________________
ToBoGgAn wrote:we are gonna take it in the ass and like it, cause thats what america does.
Slo2pt2 (Projekt Unknown?) wrote:One my SON is ADHD N.O.S and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I will nto medicate him he will battle throught this himself and learn to control it.
They didn't make the rules, we did. They CANNOT have other people come in and help without jumping through tons of hoops. I have lived very close to a native reserve and I can tell you that for every welfare case there is somebody struggling to make things better and they hit barrier after barrier. It's horrible. They are not allowed to exploit mineral resource or develope land in any way, they do not own the land. Non-native people are not to be on a reserve after dark or during certain periods at all, again, white rule not there's. All the rules regarding the land are made by us because the crown still retains ownership of the land.
As far as treaty rights go, a deal is a deal is a deal. Wanna break the deal? Go to court and negotiate just liek any other contract. Some treaties have never been honoured, that is not the native's fault, it's ours.
You need to dig a little deeper into your history lessons. We screwed them over, then pretended we would stop, signed treaties, got them to fight in our wars then screwed them over again. We took advantage of their trust and now they have learned that they cannot trust us. It's just too bad they didn't figure that out 200 years ago. It was less than 100 years ago that we stuffed them on reserves with next to nothing. Don't expect their distrust of us thieves to go away until we have a 100 years of honesty first.. The previous 400 years of nasty lies and deceiet will take a while to forgive.
That said, they are a conquored people(s) and that also leads to distrust. We took their land and their culture. We tried to force them to conform but our mindsets were so different they simply could not. They had no concept of ownership for example, so how could they possibly deal with us in an understanding way?
How to go forward? Well, we have to help them increase their welfare through education etc. We have to help them integrate because the reserve system is killing their ability to compete. Ever notice how much better off off-reserve natives are? I have. The question is how to do it? They are now dependent on that system and no longer have their old ways. They will have to learn new ways and the only way to do that is to get off the reserve. I suggest that we begin by allowing them to actually own their homes. Build schools, train people and allow them to exploit resources they have around them. It a start. We also need to settle treaties and get on with things. Why should anyone have to wait 5 generations to get what they were promised?
What they really need is understanding from the general population. Socially they also need to be able to try and revive what is left of their culture. The dignity to be a "people" again. Right now reserve natives are little more than endentured prisoners to the system.
If you think they have it easy, spend a few weeks on a reserve and then tell me what you think.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:
How to go forward? Well, we have to help them increase their welfare through education etc. We have to help them integrate because the reserve system is killing their ability to compete. Ever notice how much better off off-reserve natives are? I have. The question is how to do it? They are now dependent on that system and no longer have their old ways. They will have to learn new ways and the only way to do that is to get off the reserve. I suggest that we begin by allowing them to actually own their homes. Build schools, train people and allow them to exploit resources they have around them. It a start. We also need to settle treaties and get on with things. Why should anyone have to wait 5 generations to get what they were promised?
What they really need is understanding from the general population. Socially they also need to be able to try and revive what is left of their culture. The dignity to be a "people" again. Right now reserve natives are little more than endentured prisoners to the system.
If you think they have it easy, spend a few weeks on a reserve and then tell me what you think.
PAX
I don't notice how much better off reserve natives are. I have a native friend who lives off reserve land, his dad has an honest job working at a mill. I'm not sure how this works though, but his dad or something supposely sold his treaty rights? They can do this? But anyway, they seem to be better off than 100% of the people living on the reserve. They're not stuck there, of how would my friend and his family be able to live off reserve land? He went to the school I went to, recieved the same education I recieved. I don't see why more natives don't do this. Almost 100% of all the natives I know that live off the reserve in my town are fairly well off, go to schools, and arn't involved in anything overly bad. It's like some of them WANT to stay living how they're living, in their poor looking reserved, getting poor education, and recieving bad education. I see some that are moving on, and doing a lot better. Why don't more see this and do so as well?
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
Most have pride in their roots, or worse, are so bad off that they can't leave.
You can't "sell" your treaty rights, you're either status indian, non-status, or metis (and too far gone to be status or non-status). You can refuse them I think, but the Treaty is between the Gov't and the Band or Nation, so it's up to you accept the treaty benefits and requirements if you want to... most of the benefits are geared toward keeping people in the reserves or territory.... If you leave the rez, you lose the pay-outs.
SOME reservations (usually the ones that straddle US & Canadian border, and the US state allows them to have a casino) aren't bad at all, but they're fairly few and far between.
As far as leaving the Rez, they're usually able to get a better work situation because they're going to areas that have jobs.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
A lot of Indians have adopted a siege mentality where they subconsciously think that if they wait long enough the white man's gonna go back home.
However, as for treaties. No nation breaks a treaty, even if it's to their own detriment. It's the cornerstone of modern politics. We have agreements with Israel, with Europe, with Mexico, with the US, with Russia... and so on. We don't break them unitarily. We can't, because if we do it starts a chain reaction where every country becomes in it for itself and we'll end up with chaos like in the middle ages.
What I said was that off-reserve natives have it better. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Getting off the reserve means loosing many things, like housing and tax beenfits etc. So they have to take a leap of faith, which is difficult. They must also leave their community and join a fairly hostile population outside the reserve. It's a difficult choice, one that many just cannot make as they don't have any resources to go forward with.
It's like quitting a low paying job, with no money in the bank, to start your own business. It can be done, it can succeed, but the going through with it is very difficult.
PAX
Knoxfire wrote:However, as for treaties. No nation breaks a treaty, even if it's to their own detriment. It's the cornerstone of modern politics. We have agreements with Israel, with Europe, with Mexico, with the US, with Russia... and so on. We don't break them unitarily. We can't, because if we do it starts a chain reaction where every country becomes in it for itself and we'll end up with chaos like in the middle ages.
The USA has broken 173 treaties with native bands. France and Britain before them did it when it was expedient or the natives got greedy.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Bagged wrote:i enjoy their casinos
As do I
The ones around where I live are really sucessful becuase of those casinos. They can make upwards of $1,000,000 per family member becuase of the casinos.
But I'll agree, the ones that are unsucessful do have it pretty hard.
Hahahaha wrote:What I said was that off-reserve natives have it better. I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Getting off the reserve means loosing many things, like housing and tax beenfits etc. So they have to take a leap of faith, which is difficult. They must also leave their community and join a fairly hostile population outside the reserve. It's a difficult choice, one that many just cannot make as they don't have any resources to go forward with.
It's like quitting a low paying job, with no money in the bank, to start your own business. It can be done, it can succeed, but the going through with it is very difficult.
PAX
Ahhh, thank you for that. Still, it pisses me off when I see one of them driving a brand new $45,000 Ford truck with a sticker on the back that says "Keep working whiteboy, my wife needs one too". I know they're not all like this, but they know what they can get and it's like they KNOW how they can abuse the system. Kind of a piss off when you hear the 17 year old native's talking about how they can be 'set' for 18 years just by having a kid. I think the bands need to start taxing. I know there's been talk of this before, but I think the only way more bands can be better off, like the ones with casino's (the reserve across the river from my town has a casino, but it's run by white people, and the money goes to the band, go figure?) is to make it so that the natives living on the reserves start having to be contributing members to something. At least that would be a step in the right direction. Maybe there's something wrong with my thinking though, I'm not sure.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good.
LOL
There's a difference between "set" on the Rez, and "set" in the rest of the world.
As far as the Casinos, they're owned by the Band, but, they're managed by larger management corporations. The management company that runs Casino Rama is owned by MGM Management, IIRC. They take a cut (I believe it's 15% of gross intake, but whatever, it's heavy money) and the rest is only taxable at a lower rate depending on the treaty.
As far as the attitude, poverty does that. I wish that I could give a better explanation... some people feel entitled to their entitlements.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
My mom works for PSEPC, public services and emergency protocols of canada, she is an Aboriginal Financial Manager something thing for eastern Canada, mainly dealing with reserves in New brunswick, Nova Scotia, and northern Quebec. Before then she used to do Western Canada soemthing or other with the treasury board, she was always flying to vancouver island, and dealing with disputes of crown land.
during the Summer of grade 10, we went on a trip as a family to BC, and my mom drove us to this reserve not far from victoria. The reserve consisted of Wrought Iron gence, and gated community, the only house we could see was a gigantic mansion of some sort. My mom said that where the cheif lives. We slowed down, and she said to down the road, the interlock stone ended to a gravel trail, and all the homes were little waferboard constructed shanties, probably 20 x 10, supported on old skids at the 4 corners. My mom proceeded to tell us that the government can't set up money managers at each reserve. The government gives the cheif, leader, tribal greedbag, all the money, yet they dont have the intelligence to spend it properly. The cheifs spend the money on themselves, not sharing with the community. My mom said that this is a very bad problem in western canada. Seeing this one site, still bothers me. How a group of people can demand so much money from the government, and keep complaining, when they aren't even trying to help themselves. it angers me.
Another thing is, the tax relief is not just for reserveees. A guy in my class, has a cousin, who has one grandparent who is 'aboriginal', he has another grandparent who is iraqii (the guy in my class shares thsi side of family, he is also half iraqii) , and the rest is english/french, some sort of blend..yet, living in downtown ottawa, has a tax card, yeup he has those special rights that he DOES NOT DESERVE, to not have to pay an extra 14% on anything...just stupid
Yes we made our mistake, and we've had to pay, but I think that time should be over. THEY ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING for themselves. Could you just imagine how much the Canadian Government would be able to save to pay off our national debt, if we would just stop putting money into nothing?!
I'd rather see the money used more wisely.
The bit about BC is interesting, I've heard about serious mismanagement, but that makes my mind boggle. Appointing individual managers for each reservation isn't feasible, but semi-regular audits might be a good idea.
The Status card is something that the people get one way or the other, so, big deal... If that's got your dander up, I won't go in depth about the way that 33% of the population pays over 85 cents of every tax dollar, collected, and has been receiving back less than 55% for the last 40 years. The reason we have national debt isn't natives... Indian Affairs gets a total of about .8% of the total budget every fiscal year... It's over spending.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
around here we dont have a problem with native americans and welfare, but we do have a problem with welfare. there really isnt a reason that the government cant do something about this. why not pass a law that, say, in 50 years the welfare system for indians will become obsolete, but that in the next 50 years the govt will continue to pay the regular amount plus XXX amount to educate those natives, etc? providing them with education and job skills that they could then use to support themselves. that seems like the best idea. and yes i know that the majority of indians wouldnt be down with that, but in the end, who cares? are people on the rez allowed to vote? even if they were, im sure they are a small enough percentage that they couldnt stop it from passing. why not do something like this? dont cut them off cold...taper it off while helping to support and educate them.
here in WV we have a ton of people on welfare. some need it, as we are one of the poorest states in the nation (i live in one of the poorest counties in one of the poorest states in america....it sucks), but others (most) dont. i believe the govt should set up some sort of work program like roosevelt did back during the great depression. govt owned, privately ran companies that produced SOMETHING.....ANYTHING. those goods could be sold back to the people at a low cost, not only supporting the workers and alleviating welfare, but also providing inexpensive consumables for the people who need it most. how and why is this not a good idea?
People on reservations are expected to vote. Canada treats Natives a little better, but all in all, it's still a bad deal.
Due to the US not honoring a LOT of treaties (in fact I think the number is the area of 740...), they deserve something....
As far as the work-fare programs, they don't usually work out successfully, Michigan (I think) tried that, and its actually costing more to administer the program than they would have saved by out-sourcing. The real fix is to reign in inflation, and start bringing down energy prices so people aren't having to pay 1/3 of their weekly wages just to get to work.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
sure i think they deserve something, but it shouldnt be an ongonig thing. and i think surely we can put these and other people on welfare to work. its a complete waste if they arent doing anything. ahh well....i'll never be in politics
I don't know about the Welfare problems, the US has a LOT less of a dole than does Canada, but then again, a welfare system helps reduce need-crime (as opposed to greed-crime).
Welfare may be problematic in some places, but in all, it's better have it and deal with the abuses, than to not have it, and deal with what need-crimes bring along.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Ahhh, thank you for that. Still, it pisses me off when I see one of them driving a brand new $45,000 Ford truck with a sticker on the back that says "Keep working whiteboy, my wife needs one too".
hey a least they buy american
that is so cool i wish i was a native
i think the USA and CANADA should just give every family a million dollars after you have had a kid for 2 years then that would give our 2 countries the chance to become filthy rich
You take a women and X her by PSI devide the legs and you can then juice the car......LOL
Quote:
i think the USA and CANADA should just give every family a million dollars after you have had a kid for 2 years then that would give our 2 countries the chance to become filthy rich
Then the laws of inflation kick in and that $1mil is worth as much then as $40k is today.
I think if there are to be reparations of the sort, it should be fair and even handed.
Like the blacks in this country that demand reparations from being slaves. My opinion: If that is going to happen right, only those that can trace their ancestry back to eing a slave should be repaid, and the more ancestry, the more reparation, and the only ones that should pay out are the ones that have family that *actually* owned slaves, again, the more direct the lineage, the more they pay out.
At least that way, people like me, who's bloodlines weren't even in the damned country when slavery was still legal here, wouldn't have to pay out taxes for something my progenitors weren't even guilty of.
Butthey'd never do that because it makes sense.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
