Well, I don't like this guy anyway. However, MOST (sadly) would choose to take a good career (not that serving in the armed forces is too shabby) over going to Iraq. Those that DO serve even though they have "better" options deserve credit. The bottom line is that, in general, he is right. He never said that someone would be "dumb" for choosing a career in the military, he's just saying that most wouldn't. Also, John Kerry's statement was a misquoted joke. He simply left out the word "us". Get over it. Some people love to twist words. Here we have a mistake in a speech (Kerry) and a statement about what people would choose over going to Iraq (Rangel) twisted to look like attacks on our brave solders.
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marijuana.
-Gun control kills!
Quote:
According to Rangel, "If a young fellow has an option of having a decent career, or joining the Army to fight in Iraq, you can bet your life that he would not be in Iraq. If there's anyone who believes these youngsters want to fight, as the Pentagon and some generals have said, you can just forget about it. No bright young individual wants to fight just because of a bonus and just because of some educational benefits," Rangel said.
I kinda have to agree with him there. Somebody isn't going to go in just for a bonus and edu benefits, if they want to fight for our country more power to them but anyone who has an opportunity to make money or go to school with out the help of the service then they will. I belive we have had this agruement a few times in the war forum.
There is a difference in going for just money or edu and going for the love of the country or to fight for our freedoms.
mclonedogmcwad wrote:Quote:
According to Rangel, "If a young fellow has an option of having a decent career, or joining the Army to fight in Iraq, you can bet your life that he would not be in Iraq. If there's anyone who believes these youngsters want to fight, as the Pentagon and some generals have said, you can just forget about it. No bright young individual wants to fight just because of a bonus and just because of some educational benefits," Rangel said.
I kinda have to agree with him there. Somebody isn't going to go in just for a bonus and edu benefits, if they want to fight for our country more power to them but anyone who has an opportunity to make money or go to school with out the help of the service then they will. I belive we have had this agruement a few times in the war forum.
There is a difference in going for just money or edu and going for the love of the country or to fight for our freedoms.
I don't agree one bit...As I have said before I have a lot of friends in different branches of the Military. 3 of them went in it because they didn't see any other option. The rest went because its what they wanted to. They had the grades and there parents had the money to send them to school. Thats why those who were up for resigning, did so. They plan to retire from the military. Why? Because they love it.
Doesn't make them stupid
Oh, and another thing about Rangel, he insists that the the army disproportionatly hurts black famlies because they are poorer than whites, and therefor are forced to join the army for income....
Hmmm, then explain to me why 65-75% of US Soldiers that have died in Iraq are Caucasian?
Racism is NOT an excuse for stupidity.
Quote:
Doesn't make them stupid
me either. Going into the service is up to ones own will and desire, NOT intellegence level.
Yup, that's our soon-to-be Ways and Means Chairman....god help us all.
But, taxes is another can of worms though
I don't see how he called them dumb, i just see a poorly generalized statement, similar to:
"Actually, no. What this shows is the pervasive pattern of those on the left side of the aisle to have no respect for the military"
Which in the hands of a spin-doctor could be taken as "all democrats hate the military". I'm not buying it--even though the latter example was better worded as "pervasive pattern" and not absolute.
Personally, I think anyone that has the gall to stand up for a cause greater than themselves should be honored--even if i don't agree with the cause. In the converse, though, i think anyone that doesn't want to stand up for the "cause-du-jure" has that right and should not be ostracized as "anti-american" or told to "get out of my country" just because of that. I'd rather see those goat-felchers get off my planet, but i digress. Some people, like me, would never give up even a @!#$ty career to go to Iraq. Why? I don't believe in the cause--whether or not you agree with me.
That's why I'm for a volunteer military and the illegalization of the draft. If the government cannot get the manpower/womanpower to fight the battles the benchwarming political knob-gobblers want to fight because people are not anxious to join the service, then maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be fighting that battle in the first place.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Rosario wrote:I don't agree one bit...As I have said before I have a lot of friends in different branches of the Military. 3 of them went in it because they didn't see any other option. The rest went because its what they wanted to. They had the grades and there parents had the money to send them to school. Thats why those who were up for resigning, did so. They plan to retire from the military. Why? Because they love it.
Doesn't make them stupid
No one said that they were stupid, just in the minority. So are organ and blood donors and people who adopt, that doesn't mean that they are stupid. As a matter of fact I respect them A LOT.
JimmyZ wrote:You're right. From John Kerry it's a botched joke (even though he said the same damn thing in the 1970's). From the moment he set foot back on American soil, Kerry has done nothing but step on the backs of American soldiers (including some that he served with) for nothing more than to score a few points with voters.
I would like a quote from the 70's where he said that the solders are dumb. If you give me proof I will instantly hate him. I know that he has spoken out against the Vietnam war and the current war, but how has he stepped on the backs of solders? I'm genuinely curious.
JimmyZ wrote:From Charles Rangel it's twisted words, even though the bills he introduces, his voting record and his own words bear out the fact that he has no respect for an "all-volunteer" military.
I agree, I don't like him either. However, he doesn't really want the draft bill to pass, he's just trying to prove a point. That if ALL people were at risk we would be less likely to go to war. He is right, but that is not a reason to submit a draft bill and he's doing nothing but hurting himself and his party.
JimmyZ wrote:Actually, no. What this shows is the pervasive pattern of those on the left side of the aisle to have no respect for the military. I don't care what neighborhood someone comes from, how much they make or what career options they have. If they choose to serve, they have my utmost respect.
WHO has said anything to the contrary? One said that MOST people who have a good option wouldn't choose to go to Iraq (TRUE!) and the other made a joke about the incompetency of the president(Who hasn't?). NONE of them have disrespected the solders. If they had I would hate them also.
JimmyZ wrote:Pat TIllman is just the most recognizable example of people who gave up "decent careers" to enlist. I have quite a few friends that have given up or delayed their careers to join up with the specific intention of going to Iraq. My father served in Vietnam and my grandfather served in WWII. I'm a member of the Sons of the American Legion as a result of their service, and that's where I first heard about this disgrace... in an email from our post commander.
Soldiers deserve respect, period. Regardless of their lives beforehand. Those that sign-up TO go to Iraq, and those that signed-up for other reasons, exemplify the kind of people we should all strive to be. That said, Mr. Tillman is probably in the minority. Even if most of the military made the same choice, most people with good careers did not. Hence, minority.
JimmyZ wrote:These politicians that would drag our soldiers through the mud for political gain are @!#$ scumbags that need to keep their mouths shut and stop acting like propaganda mouthpieces for Al Qaeda.
I agree, if only I could find out who they are.
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marijuana.
-Gun control kills!
I'm sure that CNN (Clinton news network) will explain this away just as it did for John Kerry.
this politician is an idiot and obviously has his facts mixed up. i could have started a career after high school, i could have racked up thousands of dollars of debt to go to school, but the army offered me good training, a job I loved, good college money, and the pride of doing something that so many others could not, or would not do. I left the army, this is true, but i joined because I love my country and, lets be honest, it worked out financailly for my benifit too
but still, i had a choice, and I chose the military, as did my brother, my roomate, and many, many other people i know. So to say that if faced with a choice of a good job or the military, and you will hands down pick the good job, is a really really stupid and insulting comment.
democrats are just sticking it to themselves now...they really need to learn to bite their tounges when talking about the military
You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan
(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)
See, you chose the military over thousands of dollars of debt, not a good job. Even if you did choose the military over a good job, you would be in the minority. That's all he is saying and it's true, for the most part. Everyone else is adding to this statement to fit their agenda. Also this "us vs. them" attitude is really sweeping America. I see it in every board I read.
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marijuana.
-Gun control kills!
dem... rep... does it really matter , there all the same anymore anyways. they just pick diffrent sides of an argument to lie about
JimmyZ wrote:You're right. From John Kerry it's a botched joke (even though he said the same damn thing in the 1970's). From the moment he set foot back on American soil, Kerry has done nothing but step on the backs of American soldiers (including some that he served with) for nothing more than to score a few points with voters.
Granted John Kerry is an Idiot - I'll give you that. But he has never insulted our troops - unless you count the Republican distortion of what he has said. What he said in the 70s was NOT insulting the troops then(he was against "the mission" in Vietnam - which history shows he was right) just like I am against Iraq today - and that DOES NOT MAKE ME AGAINST OUR TROOPS. Even his botched joke - as he said it I understood what he meant - I assumed that meaning right off the bat before hearing what other people thought of what he said and quite frankly taking those words as applying to troops is a bit silly. He was obviously talking about Bush no matter how much you want to twist his meaning in it. So rather than launch ridiculous accusations at him, just STICK TO THE FACTS.
Facts like... John Kerry is an idiot.
Quote:
From Charles Rangel it's twisted words, even though the bills he introduces, his voting record and his own words bear out the fact that he has no respect for an "all-volunteer" military.
I can't help but imagine that he doesn't want his bill to pass, but rather it is to raise the issue of politicians sending our troops off to war for almost any cause - and yet they would probably not do that(unless it is important) if they where sending their own families to war. All and all though - I'm not a fan of his.
But the quote of his is not disrespecting soldiers. He never says that they're dumb for joining or any such thing. In fact he is speaking about "joining to fight in Iraq" rather than joining "to fight for America" - which are completely separate things. I'd bet most currently enrolled soldiers joined to fight
for America, including fighting in Afghanistan(against Al Queda in general) and our other enemies rather than to fight for Iraq. So yeah his statement is right.
Although I imagine a few soldiers might have joined specifically for Iraq - I doubt the majority did so. I wouldn't doubt that quite a few people have not joined exclusively because of Iraq. If I could be guaranteed a detail in Afghanistan(yes there is still plenty of fighting there) or somewhere with a fight I believe in - then I'd join as well. But to fight for
Iraq's future (and with Bush as my commander and chief)... NO @!#$ING WAY!! I'd die for America but no way in hell am I dying for Iraq. Screw that @!#$...
Quote:
Actually, no. What this shows is the pervasive pattern of those on the left side of the aisle to have no respect for the military.
That is a gigantic crock of @!#$ and I think you're smart enough to know that too. Where do you get this crap? Oh wait I think I know from your link.... Newsmax.
Quote:
I don't care what neighborhood someone comes from, how much they make or what career options they have. If they choose to serve, they have my utmost respect.
So... then you respect John Kerry? He was one of the very few "rich boys" who enlisted(rather than being drafted -
he wanted to serve). He served and fought bravely(so says anyone who actually served with him aka not the "swift boat veterans for lies"). Granted that he is a idiot as I've said but you must honor him as a veteran even if he disagreed with the war he fought in.
I have a few friends who fought in Iraq - one of which(army) while there has been shot 3 times, stabbed once, and once hit over the head with a large blunt object(all that and the big lug is fine btw
) - and another(marine w/ 176 confirmed kills - he had the "saw"
) who fell though 3 floors in combat, and so now eats painkillers like candy due to a messed up hip, they oppose the Iraq war just as John Kerry opposed(although more publicly) Vietnam. So... do you want to tell me that these guys aren't heroes? Do you want to tell me that they are "@!#$ting on their fellow soldiers" because they think we shouldn't be in Iraq?
Quote:
These politicians that would drag our soldiers through the mud for political gain are @!#$ scumbags that need to keep their mouths shut and stop acting like propaganda mouthpieces for Al Qaeda.
I don't know who is dragging them though the mud but... I do know who is dragging them though a desert @!#$-hole and yes
those politicians are scum(if I said them instead of specifying "those politicians" then I'd get my words twisted around by people you - who'd then say that I'm calling our troops scum when obviously I'm not - so I'd better be word specific).
Now as for "stop acting like propaganda mouthpieces for Al Qaeda" - I'll repeat -
me from above wrote:That is a gigantic crock of @!#$ and I think you're smart enough to know that too. Where do you get this crap? Oh wait I think I know from your link.... Newsmax.
Seriously show me ANYONE in America who is acting like "propaganda mouthpieces for Al Qaeda" and more importantly show me how they're acting that way. I won't be holding my breath for anything credible...
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
ok jimmy go ahead and move this one to the war forum so we dont have to look at it
navycav3 wrote:ok jimmy go ahead and move this one to the war forum so we dont have to look at it
Good call.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
As#$hol8es!! I joined out of patiotism. The college money was a benefit. The great friends I made was a benefit. I got to see Germany and live in Italy. Since I was in the military I get an extra 10 points on my civil service test. I get job preference. Unfortunately I was in Iraq and Afghanistan. Misled into Iraq. BUT, the military got my mods for my car. I didn't like it because I was separated from my family, so I quit when my time was up.
I got to collect unemployment for 5 months. I stayed on it for so long because I only got to see my family for maybe a total of 4 months during the 4 1/2 years I was in. I could stayed on till mid january but I was starting to get bored.
I now make more at my job than I was making before because their entry pay is about $3 an hour higher. I'm working there till I get into the prison. So it turns out the sacrifice I made for my country and family will turn out to be worth it. I can say that in it's own F^*(ed up way the army has helped me a great deal. I might have even stayed in if I was single. I loved fixing weapons!!
So screw them bastards!!!!
Jimmy: Don't buy the hype as far as Kerry goes... he's voted along lines that makes fighting a war like in Afghanistan possible.
If you search back through some of the posts I've made, he's been on the side of making pretty sensible use of the money given the DOD. Reagan, Bush, and Bush had been dumping money into the R&D areas of the DOD, but neglecting the pay for the individual soldiers. Put it this way, the only non-executive discretionary increases in the military's spending by the Bush Admin was in 2004.
If it weren't for re-structuring into rapid deployment force, you'd still be setting up shop in Afghanistan.
As for Rangel, well, saying people are stupid and treating them like they're expendible is 2 very different things.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I think there are plenty people who join because they have a lack of options. And that's sad. But I think Rangel made a broad assumption that most do that, and I don't agree. Personally, most people I know who joined the military chose and had plenty of options.
I myself desperately tried to join all branches despite having a full-ride to several universities on the table. But none would take me because of a bad knee injury I had at 14yo.
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This stuff pisses me off because two of my best freinds who were already signed up for UTI and on theie way dropped there plans in a matter of a day just to fight for their country in the Marines.
zero wrote:I'm sure that CNN (Clinton news network) will explain this away just as it did for John Kerry.
Are you serious? In the last 8 years they've been sofa-king pro-republican their only rival has been Fox for GOP Naso-anal quality time.
SunfireN2o: It's their choice, but, I'd be surprised if the people that are committing them to a futile action have as much respect for their sacrifice as your friends do for their freedom.
Fair winds and following seas.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
