I guess some Democrats feel uncomfortable with all this power and want to make sure people hate them and vote them out first chance they get.
The Draft coming back?
That legislation is mainly a joke - never gonna happen. I bet it isn't really intended to pass by its writers.
One thing about how its worded though - is to specifically prevent any more "poor man's wars." That is something I completely agree with. The idea is that if more wars did happen - even rich people(including members on congress/senate) have no way to avoid their sons(/daughters?) from being drafted into the wars they are provoking - so they won't be going to war UNLESS IT IS IMPORTANT. That certainly would change things wouldn't it?
Back in the days when men where men, it was the "nobility" that went to war - everyone including the king etc would be putting their own lives on the line - so war wasn't to be taken so lightly. Nowadays - our leaders cowardly hide in a "secret secure location" or at least nowhere near the action or anywhere in harm's way.
I think we need to return to the old ways but fat chance of that ever happening.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
I'm all for the draft. Everyone from 18 to 55 should be eligible in a front line role unless they have health problems. And everyone from 18 to 65 should be eligible in support roles (Mechanic/Janitor/Cook/ect...) Why the hell not? This isn't 1876 where you were over the hill at 42. Most forty year olds today are as healthy as a twenty year old man in the first world war.
I say draft everyone. No excuse for not going. Everyone gets to see war first hand. None of this CNN crap.
Wars will be very short lived when even rich people have to go.
Our military is so great because the people in it want to be there, they're the best of the best. If you get everyone in it we'll have a watered down shell of it's former self.
Jeremy Knox wrote:I'm all for the draft. Everyone from 18 to 55 should be eligible in a front line role unless they have health problems. And everyone from 18 to 65 should be eligible in support roles (Mechanic/Janitor/Cook/ect...) Why the hell not? This isn't 1876 where you were over the hill at 42. Most forty year olds today are as healthy as a twenty year old man in the first world war.
I say draft everyone. No excuse for not going. Everyone gets to see war first hand. None of this CNN crap.
Wars will be very short lived when even rich people have to go.
A Canadian Would say that.
1. It prolly wont happen as this isnt the first time its been brought up.
2. Zero said it best
3. I dont mind going over, I was very close to joining the marines when a good job opportunity came along but im not going to want to be with complete idiots i cant depend on
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was about to join the Marines too - but that was right before the 2000 election. Then Bush got elected - and I said to myself "Join up with this idiot being commander and chief? I think not." At that point I told my recruiter that I was using drugs(I was lying but it successfully got me kicked out of the delayed entry program).
When Bush is out I might reconsider joining up(even though we'll likely still be in Iraq at that point).
An all volunteer army really is best - because as was said - you have armed forces that want to serve 100%. With a drafted army you have a much more reluctant - if not resentful - armed force. Also being forced into armed service may not instill much patriotism. Aside from giving minimal effort - you might have some of these people acting as sabatours, spies, etc.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
Quote:
At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
I read this earlier today and was dumfounded. I think most people support the TROOPS not the war, i.e. the policy and administration. I can't see how somebody can link the two and say everybody should support the draft.
I personally support the troops but not the administration and sure as hell wouldn't want to do the job they are doing. I have to give them credit for that. The draft will never happen unless we go to an all out war with NK and Iran and I think we are smarter to know better then to invade either of those countries right now.
Drafts worked well the last time they were instituted... </sarcasm>
A volunteer military is definitely a more professional military.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
^ definitely.
If I am ever FORCED to go to war, you better believe it when I just sit on my ass and refuse to do anything. I wouldnt give a @&*^# if I get thrown in prison. I'd rather be in prison than fighting a war I don't believe in.
now if it was a war I believed in, then I'd be one of the first ones to get out there and start fighting.
Pay attention, cause I'm only going to say this once.....
CHARLES RANGEL IS A @!#$ IDIOT!
mclonedogmcwad wrote:Quote:
At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
I read this earlier today and was dumfounded. I think most people support the TROOPS not the war, i.e. the policy and administration. I can't see how somebody can link the two and say everybody should support the draft.
I personally support the troops but not the administration and sure as hell wouldn't want to do the job they are doing. I have to give them credit for that. The draft will never happen unless we go to an all out war with NK and Iran and I think we are smarter to know better then to invade either of those countries right now.
I'm a little dumbfounded by your statement. He didn't say he supported the President. This policy is if you want war, then you yourself must be willing to go or let your kids go. Then maybe we wouldn't be so easy to let it happen.
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AGuSTiN wrote:mclonedogmcwad wrote:Quote:
At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
I read this earlier today and was dumfounded. I think most people support the TROOPS not the war, i.e. the policy and administration. I can't see how somebody can link the two and say everybody should support the draft.
I personally support the troops but not the administration and sure as hell wouldn't want to do the job they are doing. I have to give them credit for that. The draft will never happen unless we go to an all out war with NK and Iran and I think we are smarter to know better then to invade either of those countries right now.
I'm a little dumbfounded by your statement. He didn't say he supported the President. This policy is if you want war, then you yourself must be willing to go or let your kids go. Then maybe we wouldn't be so easy to let it happen.
Sorry but agreeing with the war has nothing to do with agreeing with draft. I would go to war in a heartbeat, however, as we have said, No one wants a bunch of jack ass's over there that don't want to be there.
Would you want pink boy up there backing you up if the two of you got drafted?
I don't understand this disrespect for drafted soldiers. Please explain it to me. I'd like to run your reasons by some of the veterans in my neighborhood.
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AGuSTiN wrote:I don't understand this disrespect for drafted soldiers. Please explain it to me. I'd like to run your reasons by some of the veterans in my neighborhood.
There not the same bud. Don't try and pull that @!#$ on me...
Go back and read Orlandos comment. Thats where disrespect for TODAYS drafted soldiers comes from. Are we talking about veterans?
Rosario wrote:AGuSTiN wrote:I don't understand this disrespect for drafted soldiers. Please explain it to me. I'd like to run your reasons by some of the veterans in my neighborhood.
There not the same bud. Don't try and pull that @!#$ on me...
Go back and read Orlandos comment. Thats where disrespect for TODAYS drafted soldiers comes from. Are we talking about veterans?
So you're going to use Orlando as an example of what the average drafted soldier would do? WTF is that? We've had plenty of wars where the soldiers were drafted, and they won bigger wars than our volunteer army has. This notion that a drafted army would be worse can't be supported by much fact. You have no evidence to support this opinion.
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I respect anyone who serves our country but there is no way in hell I'd go die in a war I don't believe in or support. As stated, if it was something I believed in, I'd have no problem going. As for the draft, if it does win in congress(which it won't, it wasn't drafted to) then simply put, I won't go. I refuse to fight Bush's war.
I had something really funny to put here but it was too long.
AGuSTiN wrote:Rosario wrote:AGuSTiN wrote:I don't understand this disrespect for drafted soldiers. Please explain it to me. I'd like to run your reasons by some of the veterans in my neighborhood.
There not the same bud. Don't try and pull that @!#$ on me...
Go back and read Orlandos comment. Thats where disrespect for TODAYS drafted soldiers comes from. Are we talking about veterans?
So you're going to use Orlando as an example of what the average drafted soldier would do? WTF is that? We've had plenty of wars where the soldiers were drafted, and they won bigger wars than our volunteer army has. This notion that a drafted army would be worse can't be supported by much fact. You have no evidence to support this opinion.
im sure im not the only one who thinks this way. now if a draft was put into effect, you would have thousands of guys doing the same thing I would do. Im not saying EVERYONE would do the same, but I assure you a vast majority would. Theres a reason we don't join the military, we dont want to. This would definitely be a bad move/
reasons why:
1. people like me who refuse to fight
2. people who try to dodge the draft
3. people who go and then turn against their fellow soldiers (trust me, there would be plenty)
its a bad idea all together.
now it kind of "worked" during vietnam. but im sure we still had a couple of screw ups. Hoever there's one more thing you have to consider, 18 yr olds back then were not NEARLY as stupid/dont give a @*&/ rebellious/ crazy as today's 18 yr olds
Orlandomon wrote:
reasons why:
2. people who try to dodge the draft
Everybody sing now... "O Canada! Our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command....."
Either that or 12 gauge + knee = no draft for me should (in the
very off chance my number get called)
Orlandomon wrote:AGuSTiN wrote:Rosario wrote:AGuSTiN wrote:I don't understand this disrespect for drafted soldiers. Please explain it to me. I'd like to run your reasons by some of the veterans in my neighborhood.
There not the same bud. Don't try and pull that @!#$ on me...
Go back and read Orlandos comment. Thats where disrespect for TODAYS drafted soldiers comes from. Are we talking about veterans?
So you're going to use Orlando as an example of what the average drafted soldier would do? WTF is that? We've had plenty of wars where the soldiers were drafted, and they won bigger wars than our volunteer army has. This notion that a drafted army would be worse can't be supported by much fact. You have no evidence to support this opinion.
im sure im not the only one who thinks this way. now if a draft was put into effect, you would have thousands of guys doing the same thing I would do. Im not saying EVERYONE would do the same, but I assure you a vast majority would. Theres a reason we don't join the military, we dont want to. This would definitely be a bad move/
reasons why:
1. people like me who refuse to fight
2. people who try to dodge the draft
3. people who go and then turn against their fellow soldiers (trust me, there would be plenty)
its a bad idea all together.
now it kind of "worked" during vietnam. but im sure we still had a couple of screw ups. Hoever there's one more thing you have to consider, 18 yr olds back then were not NEARLY as stupid/dont give a @*&/ rebellious/ crazy as today's 18 yr olds
Again, all opinion, which runs contrary to history.
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AGuSTiN wrote:Orlandomon wrote:AGuSTiN wrote:Rosario wrote:AGuSTiN wrote:I don't understand this disrespect for drafted soldiers. Please explain it to me. I'd like to run your reasons by some of the veterans in my neighborhood.
There not the same bud. Don't try and pull that @!#$ on me...
Go back and read Orlandos comment. Thats where disrespect for TODAYS drafted soldiers comes from. Are we talking about veterans?
So you're going to use Orlando as an example of what the average drafted soldier would do? WTF is that? We've had plenty of wars where the soldiers were drafted, and they won bigger wars than our volunteer army has. This notion that a drafted army would be worse can't be supported by much fact. You have no evidence to support this opinion.
im sure im not the only one who thinks this way. now if a draft was put into effect, you would have thousands of guys doing the same thing I would do. Im not saying EVERYONE would do the same, but I assure you a vast majority would. Theres a reason we don't join the military, we dont want to. This would definitely be a bad move/
reasons why:
1. people like me who refuse to fight
2. people who try to dodge the draft
3. people who go and then turn against their fellow soldiers (trust me, there would be plenty)
its a bad idea all together.
now it kind of "worked" during vietnam. but im sure we still had a couple of screw ups. Hoever there's one more thing you have to consider, 18 yr olds back then were not NEARLY as stupid/dont give a @*&/ rebellious/ crazy as today's 18 yr olds
Again, all opinion, which runs contrary to history.
contrary to history - well lets see here - aside from Vietnam - these wars that we drafted soldiers in - where wars that people believed in - Civil War(both sides believed in), WW1, WW2 etc. Vietnam was a war that not everyone believed in but where drafted too regardless. And what of the war that Americans where heavily divided upon - namely Vietnam - well we lost that war. See the historic parallel there?
Now as for Orlandomon's quote that we're more rebellious now than in the Vietnam era
- what are you smoking? You're talking about the late 60s and early 70s - basically the height of youth rebellion in this nation. You're way off base there. But I do agree that this generation would be bad candidates for the draft - unless you're talking about a war that you could get people behind.
I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?
We didn't lose Vietnam because the soldiers were screwing around and not doing their jobs. I've heard many reasons why we lost Vietnam, but soldiers misbehaving wasn't one of them.
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You know Rangel is right. If you don't support the draft, you don't support the soldiers.
"BUT WE DO SUPPORT THE SOLDIERS!!!!"
Where? In your heart? How? By flying a little flag on your car antenna and tying a little yella ribbon around an old oak tree?
F*CK THAT SH*T!!!!!!!
Give your own life up to save them in battle! Pick up their pieces after they've been blown up in a car bomb! Mop up their blood in the operating room! Take care of their families after they die!
Then, and only then, will you be supporting the soldiers. Otherwise it's just a selfish symbolic act that is essentially MEANINGLESS to most soldiers. It's amazing to me how many people, conservative and liberal, loudly "support" soldiers but don't really want to do anything for them. Hey, I "support" Unicef, but I never give them money. Why? Because I don't really care even though I agree with their goals. See the difference?
So Jeremy are you in the army? if you are Canadian why aren't you an Afghanistan supporting our troops or if you're American why aren't you in Iraq. You do alot of @!#$ talking for someone on North American soil.
<img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/drys95z24/thumbnail_personal_pic.gif">
Cant wait for the snow to melt so that I can play with my toys.
