With Bush's defeat coming on the hells of his disastrous Iraq policy I'd be interested in finding out what you all think should be done to improve the war.

My own thoughts:

#1 Have an english speaking Iraqi soldier assigned to every single patrol unit. He knows the people, knows the social etiquette and can read other Iraqi's better than some 18 year old from Kentucky. Get his hands bloody, have him kill a few people. When he's as proficient in fighting as any American, replace one of the soldiers from the team with another Iraqi. Repeat until you have a fully Iraqi platoon. We've been training these anuses for two years and they haven't learned anything. Let's see how fast they grasp the basics when their lives are on the line.

#2 Recruit some smart Iraqi atheist kids to be sent to America to learn english, arab and how to recite the Koran by memory. Then use them as spies in 5 to 10 years. Not too legal, but SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

#3 Secretely use a remote detonator that sends out on every frequency so that a lot of the roadside bombs will go off long before we get there. If we're lucky we might get a bomb factory. Take the whole building down. It'll look like misfires and the insurgents will stop using that crap if it starts to become ineffective.

#4 Stop calling suicide bombers "cowards" which is blatantly untrue. Instead point out that it's a waste of manpower and that the Terrorist leaders use such tactics because they're too lazy to properly train someone. If you took a well motivated kid who's not afraid to die and taught him camouflage techniques and sniping, he could do a LOT more damage than if he just walked up to you with dynamite in his pants. It'll shame them into using more conventional techniques. I don't know if this will improve the war or not, but at least it'll be a fight between warriors, and battle hardened men learn something about life after spilling some blood.

#5 Fund water/power initiatives in every town. It'll cost a pretty penny and a lot will be wasted on corruption and bribes, but even if we waste of money it'll be to our advantage. Having power and water will give people something to lose if we're driven out. Right now people in Iraq have more to gain by our absence than presence. Democracy is a vague and almost alien concept. Give them lights, clean water, food and air conditioning. They all get THAT. Also, it's something the insurgents can't give. Makes our enemies look bad and us look good.

#6 Bribery, bribery, bribery. The three B's. Pay off the right people and you can make anything happen. Warlords, gang leaders, corrupt local politicians. Give these guys a little candy in return for their help. It's amazing what a few thugs can accomplish when you give em hookers, coke and nice flashy cars.

#7 Too late for this suggestion, but I would never have formed a "government" in Iraq. Instead I'd have formed a temporary leadership comprised of delegates from all major Islamic countries hired as "consultants" with an American "Reconstruction Tsar" well versed in Arabic culture to oversee the entire country. Iraq doesn't need democracy, it needs a benevolent dictatorship to ease it into democracy. It needs roads and mail service and working telephones and clean water and a strong honest police force. It needs hospitals and schools and farms and stores and jobs.

None of this is rocket science and I'm not that bright. I basically exploit greed and fear and the need to keep face in my enemy. None of this hippy "Let's all make a better world BS".

I woulda just started with nukes and it woulda been over by now, but nooooooooo Rumsfeld said that was to rash.





j/k

How would I run the war?

1. Round up all our old "non-guided" bombs.
2. Evacuate a building.
3. Blow it up using the old bombs. (placed in the building, not dropped)
4. Repeat until they're out of buildings or we're out of bombs.

Then leave.

I would never help train an army that will one day want to rise up against my country.

I wouldn't lift a finger to assist them with their water/electric utilities. Every advancement we make is only temporary, there's a lot of vandallism / terrorism against our work there. When we leave, they'll find a way to get the electricity working or sit in the dark. I couldn't care less either way.

I don't support "bribery" to get what you want. The problem with bribes is that once you've paid someone to be your friend, they'll expect it all the time. And if they're only your friend because you've paid them, they will turn on you if someone offers them more money.





John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

1: Create a real, paid border patrol, keep it closed, and keep the people safer.
2: Make it worth while for former military to either join an Iraqi-loyal army or at least completely disarm.
3: Make it completely inhospitable for al-qaeda brigades to set up shop... paid snitches, random sweeps, nightly patrols.
4: Rebuild Mosques, infrastructure and other public buildings and administrations using IRAQI materials and manpower whenever remotely feasible.
5: Create real police forces that will Patrol alongside Americans, and make it ethnically diverse. As it stands, Shi'ia and Sunni are chomping at the bit to kill each other... IF they at least WORK together, they might see that they're not so different.
6: Ask for the cessation of sanctions from the UN, as well as formally ask for UN Peace-keeping missions.
7: At this point begin co-ordination with humanitarian aid agencies and UN to keep al-qaeda and sectarian factions at bay,
8: Commit more troops to the area in order to achieve these goals at least on time.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:1: Create a real, paid border patrol, keep it closed, and keep the people safer.
2: Make it worth while for former military to either join an Iraqi-loyal army or at least completely disarm.
3: Make it completely inhospitable for al-qaeda brigades to set up shop... paid snitches, random sweeps, nightly patrols.
4: Rebuild Mosques, infrastructure and other public buildings and administrations using IRAQI materials and manpower whenever remotely feasible.
5: Create real police forces that will Patrol alongside Americans, and make it ethnically diverse. As it stands, Shi'ia and Sunni are chomping at the bit to kill each other... IF they at least WORK together, they might see that they're not so different.
6: Ask for the cessation of sanctions from the UN, as well as formally ask for UN Peace-keeping missions.
7: At this point begin co-ordination with humanitarian aid agencies and UN to keep al-qaeda and sectarian factions at bay,
8: Commit more troops to the area in order to achieve these goals at least on time.

9. Raise taxes to 80% to pay for another decade of being there. Or maybe send the bill to other countries...


John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

UN Mandates are factored into the Defence budget. It also lowers commitment numbers, so at that point you need less and less cash to finance operations.
Instead of upping Taxes, cut pork barrel spending.

Also, once the internal ministries of commerce and finance are standing on their own 2 feet, they can pick up the tab for outfitting and training their army, lessening the total US outlay.






Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

John Wilken wrote:
9. Raise taxes to 80% to pay for another decade of being there. Or maybe send the bill to other countries...

You're there for another 10 years anyway. This is going to be a long war with lots of proxy battles. If it's not Iraq, it'll be Afghanistan. If not those two, then somewhere else. I feel like a broken record here, but you guys (and the whole rest of the Western world once they wake up) will be at war until 2045 at least. Does it really matter where you fight? It's all the same type of people, terrorists.

The war against terror is a war with no countries, no kings, no victories, no armies; just a neverending stream of battles and casualties. The only objective is to keep killing our enemy until they give up or we exterminate them.

The job won't be done for several decades. The boys are not coming home. The only reward for finally finishing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will only be another war. People are eventually going to have to deal with that reality. I'm not trying to be pessimistic or emo here. This is just the ugly truth. I was yelling it from the rooftops in 2003 when you guys went to Iraq but no one listened to me. Now the reality of what the war on terror really will entail is hard to ignore. This will be long and brutal and bloody and it will not end just because the democrats pull out of Iraq. We have other enemies in other countries and if we don't get them all now, they'll only get more powerful. We can outlast them, we just have to keep them constantly fighting or on the run.

Not getting involved in the first place.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

I'm of the mind that this war can't be won, no matter who is in charge.

First, it is hard enough to defeat people who believe they are fighting for their sovereignty.

Second, its hard to defeat people who believe they are fighting for their religion.

Third, I don't think the modern rules of war allow victory in the traditional sense. Not too long ago, we'd firebomb whole cities. That'd make people surrender. People in Iraq are afraid, but they can't be as nearly afraid as the Germans were when they heard the allied planes coming. Killing people isn't enough, you have to break the will of those still living in order to conquer a people.

I'm not advocating we start destroying entire city blocks in Iraq just because we heard a gunshot from that direction, but that would kind of be what's required, IMHO.


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New type of combat: Nazi's already had the people scared sh*tless, so allied bombings were basically kept to war-machine facilities as often as possible... NOW however, traditional means of warfare are not as applicable. It's much more Guerilla-style, and there are few, if any, war-machine facilities.

I don't think the average Iraqi hates Americans, but I'm pretty sure they see them as unwanted "guests." They hated life under Saddam, but things are no better now that terrorists are up and about, and if not them, the other religious factions want to kill them.




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ok, with me being in the military. i would do this

anything with an AQ, AN, or Stan in it i would nuke the hell out of. kill them all. all those countries, all we and the rest of the world have ever gotten is trouble out of them, it will never change, make the worlds biggest walmart out of them. who needs the middle east anyways, other than for oil, lol

thats my opinion on the war thing.

You'd nuke:
Germany,
Canada,
France,
Japan,
etc...?

Bomb the sh*t out of innocents as well.. brilliant.



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i said anything with an AQ, AN, or STAN, meaning the middle east countries with those at the end of their name ex: iraq, iran, afghanistan, etc

Say what you mean, grasshopper

Either way, that's not a feasible solution.




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i know, its just what i would do, lol

but there are so many different ways to run this war campaign and it gives me a headache when the people of this country dont support the soldiers and rise against them, but you know what, our soldiers fight and die for people like that to have their dumbass remarks, thats really the only thing that bothers me with it, especially me being a soldier. soldiers fight and die for our freedom and people just @!#$ all over them, thats total BULLSH!T if you ask me

Bonnett wrote:i know, its just what i would do, lol

but there are so many different ways to run this war campaign and it gives me a headache when the people of this country dont support the soldiers and rise against them, but you know what, our soldiers fight and die for people like that to have their dumbass remarks, thats really the only thing that bothers me with it, especially me being a soldier. soldiers fight and die for our freedom and people just @!#$ all over them, thats total BULLSH!T if you ask me

I dunno, I'm hardly Mr. Fruity Tuty pacifist, but most people support the soldiers. In fact, I've rarely seen people either liberal or conservative who don't. Protesting against a war, even if it's a sissy gesture, is hardly "rising up against the soldiers".

However, there is one group who I find despicable. The government and the war hawks. If anyone treats the soldier's like crap, they do. All they want from you is obedience and results. The end. To them you're a piece of equipment designed for a job and if you can't fulfill your purpose you're useless. The war in Iraq was never about WMD's or threats from Saddam. It's a proxy battle to rack up Islamic Extremist casualties. They're setting up guys like you with a big bullseye on your back so you can get shot at and take the heat off the rest of the world because you're an easy target in the Islamic world. And as long as you're there, the Wacko terrorists won't have the funds or time to come after us stateside.

This is why I doubt that anyone will be "pulling out" of Iraq anytime soon. Or if they do, it's only so you can head off to war with another country. This is faaaaaaaaar from over. We're at war for several decades at least. There might be a few lulls, but I wouldn't count on them.

Oh, and just to make sure we're all smiles, after the Islamic Cold War will come the Chinese Cold War. One war just leads to the next.

I support the soldiers. You are gonna have a rough couple of years and you need all the support you can get.

Are you kidding?

The next cold war will be with Canada after an american says at a hockey game, "Even their beer sucks." What starts as a stands clearing brawl ends as a major cold war.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

Hey, Bonnett, Ask a few of the soldiers on the board where I come down on the situation in Iraq, and how I feel about the soldiers. I'll give you the dime answer: Soldiers will not get an argument from me at all on the job they do, provided they do the right thing, the right way, at the right time, for the right reasons (ie: I hope the Abu Ghraib, and the soldiers charged with rape/murder get what they deserve). Colouring outside the lines is not acceptable. I expect nothing less out of you, than what I would expect of myself.

I still do not, and have not since the beginning agreed with going into Iraq. I've read too much about the situation (it's about 20 books, papers, and 3 major USG reports: 9/11 report, Duelfer preliminary report, ISG Final Report to the CIA) to just accept the president's wholly unfounded remarks, positions, ideas, and delusions.

However, since you're in Iraq for better or worse, it's spitting on the graves of the soldiers that died in Iraq to make their lives better if you turn tail and run. As much as I want to see the job in Afghanistan finished, Iraq is as pressing an issue now.

It's one of those times that you want to see the issue put to bed once and for good, and leave the people better off than they were when you got there.

Better you look and think before you commit than to leap into the quagmire. This is something that over 50% of the population was thinking in 2002-03... at this point, its water under the bridge.

The best way to eliminate Fundamentalist terrorism is to deny them money, and a place to set up shop. The first part has been somewhat taken care of, the second part has to be addressed by not JUST the US, but "HAVE" nations in general. It takes a change in thought, policy, and the willingness to confront your own deficiencies and remediate them without compromising your own core values (ie, nowhere in the bill of rights does it say that you have the right to cheap gas, and you really shouldn't need it explained that you give up your intrinsic rights either).





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I don't see how requiring more people to die honors those already dead.

I don't see how you can ever really "finish the job" in Iraq. Terrorists can setup anywhere. From the mountains of Pakistan to London itself.

I say, let them have a civil war, and we don't like the victor, we mop them up.


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how can we let "them" have a civil war when the US homeland and people are the targets of maggit terrorists

They're killing each other. So let them. Why impose curfews? Let them f' each other up.

You know how to inspire the Iraqi people to start taking care of themselves? Tell them, "We're leaving, so you better get your sh1t together."




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The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
We don't need no water let the @!#$ burn
Burn @!#$ burn

Hello my name is Johnny K and I'm a dumb white guy
I'm not old or new but middle school fifth grade like junior high
I don't know mofo if y'all peeps be buggin' givin' props to my ho 'cause she fly
But I can cut the gouda 'cause I'm a sorry old brooda' known as Kid Chunky Thighs
Yeah I'm hung like planet Pluto hard to see with the naked eye
But if I crashed into The White House I would stick it where the sun don't shine
'Cause I'm kind of like Han Solo always strokin' my own Wookiee
I'm the root of all that's evil yeah but you can call me Theresa

Iraq, Iraq, Iraq is on fire.
Iraq, Iraq, Iraq is on fire.
Iraq, Iraq, Iraq is on fire.
We don't need no water let the @!#$ burn
Burn @!#$ burn

Yo yo this hardcore ghetto gangster image takes a lot of practice
I'm not black like Barry White no I am white like Frank Black is
So if man is five and the Devil is six than that must make me seven
This honky's gone to heaven
But if I go to hell well then I hope I burn well
I'll spend my days with W.C., Hillary, Nancy P, and Ted Kennedy
And John P. Murtha, Kim Jong Il, Johnny Edwards and Tommy Vilsack's poltergeist
And Android Al yeah Alfred Gore, 'cause he's the Anti-Christ

Iraq, Iraq, Iraq is on fire.
Iraq, Iraq, Iraq is on fire.
Iraq, Iraq, Iraq is on fire.
We don't need no water let the @!#$ burn
Burn @!#$ burn

Everybody here we go ( 4 x's )
Ohh Ohh
C'mon party people
Ohh Ohh
Throw your hands in the air
Ohh Ohh
C'mon party people
Ohh Ohh
Wave 'em like you don't care
Ohh Ohh
C'mon party people
Ohh Ohh
Everybody say ho
Ohh Ohh
C'mon party people
Ohh Ohh
Everybody here we go

Nerve staple everyone ....

Covert operations. From most of what I have read, we arnt using them effectivly out of fear of fallen soldiers. Even when we are fighting an enemy that kills more by suicide bombing than gun shots. Right now we should have coverts in Iran and korea along with afganistan and Iraq.

i prefer:

Quote:


I at the time was a communist
Lived on a collective farm
She was a part-time antichrist
Our sex went off like a bomb
Living the life of a terrorist
Looking for the man Saddam,
Who gave me a gun as Iran to the sun
If you die like a dog then you are then you are then you are then you are...

Saddam
They shall drown in their own blood!
Hail Saddam a go-go!

Going to Saddam a go-go
Everybody is there
Business of strange bed fellows
Makes you dance around like a bear
Ein, Schwein, kick him in the eye
Teamed up with the Asian eye
They were the ones who could rise with the sun
As they lived in their planes
And they died And they died And they died And they died And they died And they died And they died How they died...

Hail!
The running paper tiger chases its own tail
Hail Saddam a go-go

He was someone who was there for people like me
Hi there Saddam, loved the party
Yes they're all here with me
Bloody Saddam
Loves you always, always a kick
Bloody Saddam
Even though the smell is making me sick
As we sit on our roofs
And cheer as your scuds fall like rain

Here at the ancient ziggaraunt
Saddam is presiding there
Running around with a saxophone
Where is the president, where?
Here it comes, the black tornado
Let's have a cheer for Sarajevo
If you survive what falls out of his mind
You'll make the political world

Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.