I'm all for it. If only to show the biggest proponents of prayer in school that their faith isn't the only one.

I know it sounds totally obvious when I talk about it here and now, but you'd be amazed how little the average religious activist thinks about any other faiths but his/her own.

Just the pandemonium you'd have and the complexity of having places for each denomination would be insane. But that's why I want it to happen. When half the class leaves to pray towards Mecca and the other half give offerings to their gods and when you have Shinto priests come in to bless the class every start of the schoolyear which makes 3/4 of the other kids not want to study in that room anymore because they don't want to be polluted by other people's religion. Well, that's my kind of fun!

And to be honest... how can you learn to accept other people if you don't face your differences and confront them? This whole passive tolerance BS has done more to spur intolerance than anything else. Tolerance is not empathy or acceptance, tolerance is pretending you like someone while secretely loathing them. It's rooted in denial and hypocrisy and I want no part of it.

So I say let there be prayer in school and let the kids fight it out amongst themselves.

I think a 5-10 minute moment of silence should suffice. I have no problem with prayer in school, but if it is out loud then they need to take turns. I would look forward to the first satanic prayer, they would raise hell. People are a bunch of whiny bitches.


_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marijuana.
-Gun control kills!

Well, the thing with me was that I was raised Catholic and when we prayed it was either chanting a specific prayer written down in a book, usually in latin. None of these made up on the spot prayers. This whole "Talking to God like he's the neighbourhood transmission mechanic." is beyond bizarre to me. I was taught by nuns that God is a big scary infinite supreme being that can lash out harsh punishment at a moments whim, not that he's your buddy and you can feel free to chat to him any time you want. What kind of trailer park version of religion is that????

I would say it's a better version, only because you can speak your mind and that can help. I don't believe, so I think it's pretty useless, but apparently it helps some people. Why do you think a prayer means more to god if you read it out of a book? Any god I would serve would be a forgiving, understanding god. Not one that is just waiting for you to screw up so he can condemn you to an eternity of pain. To each their own, that's what I think

BTW: It's more like "Talking to God like he's a very close friend." I doubt he would really care about the formalities, he speaks to people this way in the bible.


_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marijuana.
-Gun control kills!

I don't like your definition of tolerance at all.

It's not pretending to like someone and secretly loathing them. It's humility, knowing that you don't like something but also knowing you are not in a position to judge, nor in a position to make their desitions for them. It is not acceptance of that thing you don't like, but acceptance of the fact that it has the right to exist.

I think there's a big difference.

I tolerate Keeper's faith. I do not loath him at all, nor his faith. I also don't subscribe to it, but I recognise his right to believe what he wants and I know that I am in no position to tell him he's wrong. Doing so would be wrong for me to do.

PAX

bigj480 wrote:I would say it's a better version, only because you can speak your mind and that can help. I don't believe, so I think it's pretty useless, but apparently it helps some people. Why do you think a prayer means more to god if you read it out of a book? Any god I would serve would be a forgiving, understanding god. Not one that is just waiting for you to screw up so he can condemn you to an eternity of pain. To each their own, that's what I think

BTW: It's more like "Talking to God like he's a very close friend." I doubt he would really care about the formalities, he speaks to people this way in the bible.

I'm pretty much an atheist, but I was raised religious. Was taught grades 1 to 6 by nuns. Had to memorize the latin our father and know how to ask blessing at mealtime. Can't remember much of it: "In domini padre in spiritu sancti... something something..." Is all I can think of off the top of my head.

As for the concept of god waiting for us to screw up so he can condemn you, well... in Catholicism you're born with the original sin and there's no washing it off. You have to spend your whole life making it up to God and the only way you'll be eternally forgiven is when you die. The very act of being born condemns you.

Basically it comes down to what one of the sisters told me about prayer: "God doesnt want us to speak to him in the language of the gutter." It's all about worship and chanting and the fear of eternal hell unless one constantly confesses his sins in confession.

Any wonder people prefer tow truck driving God?

I say that prayer in school should be allowed, but not required. by prayer I mean, saying a little prayer to yourself, quietly without disturbing others, and don't throw a fit if the guy next to you starts doing a muslim, or jewish, hindu, wiccan, satanist, ect...prayer too, its their right as well. I also think that "under god" needs to be removed from the pledge of allegiance, and "in god we trust" needs to start being phased out, on new prints of money.

its not that im against christians, i am just sick of this country not respecting the religions of others. I don't trust a god, why does my money lie? i don't beleive this nation is under any god, why should I have to say it in school. pissed me off last time i was in court...the judge said "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth SO HELP YOU GOD?" i said yes, but thats only because saying no would have been very detrimental to my case, but i still found it highly offensive

basically i support freedom of religon, and freedom FROM religion...so allowing people to pray in school on an individual basis, so long as they don't disrupt class....sure go for it, by all means.

forcing people to pray in school........no, go eat a cyanide infested popcicle










You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

Hahahaha wrote:I don't like your definition of tolerance at all.

It's not pretending to like someone and secretly loathing them. It's humility, knowing that you don't like something but also knowing you are not in a position to judge, nor in a position to make their desitions for them. It is not acceptance of that thing you don't like, but acceptance of the fact that it has the right to exist.

I think there's a big difference.

I tolerate Keeper's faith. I do not loath him at all, nor his faith. I also don't subscribe to it, but I recognise his right to believe what he wants and I know that I am in no position to tell him he's wrong. Doing so would be wrong for me to do.

Were you speaking about me? I don't loath anyone, my mother is christian an I obviously love her. I don't like religion in general but I have no problem AT ALL with the people that follow them. Like you said, I don't have to subscribe to the religion to respect others rights to believe. That's why I don't care if there is prayer in school. Do I think they're mistaken? Sure, and they feel the same way about me, no problem.

Jeremy Knox wrote:As for the concept of god waiting for us to screw up so he can condemn you, well... in Catholicism you're born with the original sin and there's no washing it off. You have to spend your whole life making it up to God and the only way you'll be eternally forgiven is when you die. The very act of being born condemns you.

See, I don't like that, even if you live according to the bible 100% you are still bad. I don't like the fact that you are held responsible for others transgressions.

Jeremy Knox wrote:Basically it comes down to what one of the sisters told me about prayer: "God doesnt want us to speak to him in the language of the gutter." It's all about worship and chanting and the fear of eternal hell unless one constantly confesses his sins in confession.

Since when is proper english the language of the gutter? It seems that the whole idea is to make you feel as unworthy of gods love as possible so that you constantly sacrifice to feel worthy. This is just my opinion though.

mikec2003 wrote:I also think that "under god" needs to be removed from the pledge of allegiance, and "in god we trust" needs to start being phased out, on new prints of money.

I disagree, if you don't believe then there is no reason to be offended. Are you offended by the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and Santa Claus?

mikec2003 wrote:its not that im against christians, i am just sick of this country not respecting the religions of others. I don't trust a god, why does my money lie? i don't beleive this nation is under any god, why should I have to say it in school. pissed me off last time i was in court...the judge said "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth SO HELP YOU GOD?" i said yes, but thats only because saying no would have been very detrimental to my case, but i still found it highly offensive

You're sick of people not respecting others beliefs but you don't want to here any religious statement at all? Also, money can't lie, thats a human characteristic. It's not a big deal.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, September 15, 2006 5:40 PM

_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marijuana.
-Gun control kills!

Jeremy Knox wrote:
As for the concept of god waiting for us to screw up so he can condemn you, well... in Catholicism you're born with the original sin and there's no washing it off. You have to spend your whole life making it up to God and the only way you'll be eternally forgiven is when you die. The very act of being born condemns you.

You do know that Baptism washes away original sin, right? That's the whole point of it. You're not spending your whole life making anything up to God, he's not mad at you... really! That's a big misconception of Christianity, that God is a vengeful God whole you have to watch everything you do because one mistake and you're doomed. Sure, it sounds cool for TV and movie plots but it's just not true. Sorry to burst your bubble.

bigj480 wrote:

mikec2003 wrote:I also think that "under god" needs to be removed from the pledge of allegiance, and "in god we trust" needs to start being phased out, on new prints of money.

I disagree, if you don't believe then there is no reason to be offended. Are you offended by the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and Santa Claus?

mikec2003 wrote:its not that im against christians, i am just sick of this country not respecting the religions of others. I don't trust a god, why does my money lie? i don't beleive this nation is under any god, why should I have to say it in school. pissed me off last time i was in court...the judge said "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth SO HELP YOU GOD?" i said yes, but thats only because saying no would have been very detrimental to my case, but i still found it highly offensive

You're sick of people not respecting others beliefs but you don't want to here any religious statement at all? Also, money can't lie, thats a human characteristic. It's not a big deal.

see..the pledge and money offend me because, to me, theyre putting words in my mouth, theyre almost forcing me to say I beleive in a god, when I don't and I don't like passing money that says the contrary.

and yes, id rather have no religous statement at all, then one that supports the Idea of the Christian god.....because I KNOW that the christian way of thinking is not right. so to you its not a big deal, but to me it is








You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

I'm not a very religious guy. I kinda have my own set of beliefs and values that I have developed over time. Nothing that is set in a book. I see the money and hear the pledge and it doesn't offend me at all. You are more then able to be offended by those statements, as it is your right, but I don't see the point in getting all pissy over a couple of words. They are just words. That is all. You are giving them meaning by getting all mad over it. Just realize it is a couple of letters that are strung together to make a noise. Not so offending anymore, is it? I dunno, I just don't think it's a big deal.

Back on track. I believe prayer should be allowed in school, but not lead by the school. Seperation of church and state. Public schools are products of the government and should no lead students in prayer. If the kids want to do something religious and it doesn't interfere with their classes and studies, then let them do it. It is their paragotive. If religion in school is that important to you, goto a private school that is church based to your beliefs.

Taking phrases out of the pledge or off our currancy is totally overboard and not needed. There is always something someone has to get offended over though. If something as simple as those things gets you so offended that you can't stand it, you may want to take a step back and get a good look at the big picture of life and see where it stacks up in importance. If this was number one on my list of things to accomplish, I would have my priorities seriously messed up. IMHO


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