Liberal media = Myth
Objective media = Memory
Opportunist media = The new reality.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
JimmyZ wrote:Whether they see it now or they see it when it airs, they're still going to cry about it. They can call it lies and whatever all they want. 9/11 was the culmination of a massive failure at ALL levels of government, and the only fabrication here is coming from the Democrats trying to make us believe the failure didn't *also* happen on their side of the aisle.
You didn't hear them cry about not "airbrushing 9/11" when Farenheit 911 came out, and there are few parts of that movie that AREN'T hype, dramatizations, out of context quotes and fabrications. So all this whining about unfair treatment is now too little, too late...and rather childish.
None of this disproves that there is a well known, and often openly admitted to, liberal slant in the media. Being a liberal yourself, you just don't see it because they're talking to you.
First of all, I'm a registered republican JimmyZ. I voted for Dole, GW (the first time), McCain in the primaries and even Ahnuld. You don't know what you're talking about.
Your whole statement is that Democrats did this during F9/11, so it's OK for us? What happened to your moral superiority? He did, so I can, that's NOT childish? You want to talk about childish? You really want me to get into the things Republicans have done since they've been in power?
It's pretty clear to most "liberals" that the networks are trying to gain ratings by emulating FOX News. You just refuse to let it go because the Republicans need their boogie man to blame when they F up.
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GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Liberal media = Myth
Objective media = Memory
Opportunist media = The new reality.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
JimmyZ wrote:Whether they see it now or they see it when it airs, they're still going to cry about it. They can call it lies and whatever all they want. 9/11 was the culmination of a massive failure at ALL levels of government, and the only fabrication here is coming from the Democrats trying to make us believe the failure didn't *also* happen on their side of the aisle.
You didn't hear them cry about not "airbrushing 9/11" when Farenheit 911 came out, and there are few parts of that movie that AREN'T hype, dramatizations, out of context quotes and fabrications. So all this whining about unfair treatment is now too little, too late...and rather childish.
None of this disproves that there is a well known, and often openly admitted to, liberal slant in the media. Being a liberal yourself, you just don't see it because they're talking to you.
Heh... I'm on the liberal side and *I* see the liberal slant. However, it's quickly dissapearing and being replaced by bottom feeders with no ideology other than getting ratings.
If I may say something personal about myself for a minute... I hate ideology. I loathe it. Ideology is the perversion of ideas. It's taking something noble and good and pure and twisting it to fit only one possible interpretation and with the only goal of getting everyone to duck step at the same time. Conversvatism does NOT perfectly embody people who are conservative any more than Liberalism embodies people who are liberal. Those two ideologies are waging a war against each other and in doing so are removing themselves from anything human. Human beings are complex, have gray areas in their belief, change their minds, can feel empathy and love and can put themselves in the shoes of the people they don't like. Ideologies can do nothing of the sort. They're nothing more than an insectile collective consciousness that is stealing away every good and pure about people, and I for that I despise everything and everyone that allows themselves to be swept up in that kind of group think.
That's why you'll never see me taking a side. It's not Left against Right. It's all those mindless crazies against the rest of us.
I think the difference, is that with Moore, there was the option to NOT see it... it was a movie.
With ABC, there is less of an option because it's broadcast (the other option is to turn off the TV, but apparently that's being media savvy... who wants to be personally responsible or objective about stuff they see on TV?), and the potential audience is FAR larger.
A Docudrama implies an element of bullsh*t, because it's part drama. It's not 100% factual.
A Documentary is not a history class either, and it's usually written by a person with a passionate eye, not a machine with only dates and facts.
Simply put, if you're only getting your information from one source, you're stupid.
Also, if you think that just because you're registered with only one party that you're going to just abdicate your brain to the party doctrine, you need help.
Finally, If you don't question "facts" and "evidence" with an uncritical eye and question the source and their motives... you're going to get lead on, and it's going to be your fault because you failled to educate yourself.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
JimmyZ wrote:Spike Lee's "documentary" (no disclaimers) on Hurricane Katrina, which places sole blame for the response on the White House and painted New Orleans Mayor Nagin and Louisiana Governor Blanco as heroes was a FAR-left biased fabrication of the highest order, but you heard no complaints.
Whoa whoa WHOA. Have you seen the documentary? It does NOT paint Nagin or Blanco in a good light. There was SOME good things Nagin did AFTER the Hurricane hit that were correctly reported, but the before and after wasn't flattering. I witnessed no good things about Blanco or Bush. I don't know where you get your information.
Quote:
When Sinclair Broadcasting was going to show a FACTUAL piece on John Kerry
WHAT?! That piece was set to run two weeks before election, was blatantly pro-right by a company that is blatantly pro-right. 95% of Sinclairs campaign contributions go to Republicans. This is a company that refused to run a Democratic National Committee ad, presumably because they didn't agree with its content.
And they refused to run a Nightline special that was honoring our fallen soldiers in Iraq by reading their names aloud, presumably because they didn't agree with its content.
The special was clearly in violation of election laws, which Sinclair was trying to skirt by calling it a "news event", and was going to air at a special time over the top of regular network programming... meaning it wasn't even going to air during a legit news hour. The people responsible for the "news event" were Republican activists, who basically pulled their information from the same dishonest people who were responsible for the Swiftboat crap, which is now widely accepted as complete and utter Bull@!#$.
Quote:
I thought I remembered you being on "the other side of the aisle" in previous debates, but I was mistaken. I apologize.
I am on no side of the aisle. I vote for best guy for the job, period.
You know what's really funny? I get called liberal these days for talking about my CONSERVATIVE views. For example, the conservatism I subscribed to was about leaving the people alone to live their lives. Now I have to deal with a conservative President that wants to tap our phones, review our library, credit card and internet usage without a warrant? And let's not even talk about the so-called "moral majority". And what happened to fiscal conservatism?
I just have to ask you Jimmy, do you question anything you're told?
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GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:I think the difference, is that with Moore, there was the option to NOT see it... it was a movie.
With ABC, there is less of an option because it's broadcast (the other option is to turn off the TV, but apparently that's being media savvy... who wants to be personally responsible or objective about stuff they see on TV?), and the potential audience is FAR larger.
A Docudrama implies an element of bullsh*t, because it's part drama. It's not 100% factual.
A Documentary is not a history class either, and it's usually written by a person with a passionate eye, not a machine with only dates and facts.
Simply put, if you're only getting your information from one source, you're stupid.
Also, if you think that just because you're registered with only one party that you're going to just abdicate your brain to the party doctrine, you need help.
Finally, If you don't question "facts" and "evidence" with an uncritical eye and question the source and their motives... you're going to get lead on, and it's going to be your fault because you failled to educate yourself.
The main problem I have is the blatant pro-right stench of the whole thing. Can you imagine with Michael Moore released F9/11 on ABC and did all the same things? I hardly believe JimmyZ would be so "oh-well" about it.
---
Honestly, I think that most people can think for themselves, but rationalise themselves into doing something other than what their brain says.
I'm not against political parties per se, but when toeing the line takes precedence over what is right for you individually, and the constituency, there is a SERIOUS problem. If you can't seperate party rhetoric from your own ideals (let's be honest, you've got to look at what the party says as a broad summation of the ideals of the group), then either you're co-dependant, or the party has become a cult of personality. Unfortunately, that's what I see in the Republican party. To be fair, though, I saw the same thing in the democratic party before the whole Lewinsky scandal.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Ohh noezzz, people have different opinions than me!
The media has never been objective, everyone has an opinion and it is imposable to hide it during a newscast. Liberals call Fox news "Faux news" and conservatives call almost all news "the liberal media". BOTH ARE CORRECT! Do you believe that you could deliver the news without any bias? If so you are kidding yourself.
liberal news - "The bush administration has failed here/ is wrong about this topic, here's is the "proof"."
Conservative - "Ahh, you bleeding heart liberal bastards."
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Faux news - "The bush administration is doing great here/ is right about this topic, here's is the "proof"."
Liberal - "Ahh, you heartless neo-con bastards!"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:27 PM
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marihuana.
-Gun control kills!
i believe GAMS first post, aka the second post overall, and bigj480's post sums it up.
as said before the whole finger pointing demonizing the words liberal and conservative pretty much make this country a laughing stock to the world, especially when a president is trying to SAVE other countries and "spread democracy" which is ironically a "liberal movement" within itself.
I find it funny that in todays world anyone with an opinion different then what some people believe are "drinking the kool-aid" or "toeing the party line". I'm sure there are conservatives who think this way but it seems to be a mostly liberal thing. They don't seem to understand, or refuse to believe, that lots of people think that abortion is wrong, that welfare needs to be cut WAY back, that we're in Iraq and we need to finish the fight.
That's a nice biased observation there zero!
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marihuana.
-Gun control kills!
bigj480 wrote:That's a nice biased observation there zero!
Of course it was biased, it was my opinion! I'm not writing a newspaper or working for a news outlet, I'm allowed to have opinions and share them.
Exactly, see that's how it works. You heartless neo-con bastard!
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marihuana.
-Gun control kills!
zero wrote:I find it funny that in todays world anyone with an opinion different then what some people believe are "drinking the kool-aid" or "toeing the party line".
I find it sad that you don't realise that having your own opinion requires nuance and involved thought than just having it handed to you, you can mostly agree with something, mostly disagree with something... or whatever. Accepting someone else's opinion, without thinking it over for your own self, is abdicating your own will. That's flock mentality, and it's dangerous because you're not using your own grey matter.
Quote:
I'm sure there are conservatives who think this way but it seems to be a mostly liberal thing.
The problem is that most conservatives these days do exactly the opposite of what I was talking about earlier. they believe the hype... they see the deck of cards, they see the shape and colour, and just seem to believe that it's 52 cards... they don't realise that there's a few extra jokers in place of the aces. They just seem to accept that.
Quote:
They don't seem to understand, or refuse to believe, that lots of people think that abortion is wrong,
WRONG: Most democrats and non-sheep believe that abortion is a choice and that it's YOURS to make, they believe that you're adult enough to figure out what you want.
Quote:
that welfare needs to be cut WAY back,
Sure, and when you need it and it's not even close to helping, you'll be glad that you'll have to turn to crime because you have no skills and no job prospects, you'll also be completely comfortable knowing that the crime WILL increase as a result, and the cost of welfare will be a drop in the bucket (or the proverbial penny of prevention) compared to the tidal wave of cash you'll have to lay out to fix the problems cut backs will create.
Quote:
that we're in Iraq and we need to finish the fight.
Remember Afghanistan?
Osama Bin Laden?
You have the ignorance to call that fight even close to finished?
post back when you're equipped with some information or even serious thought.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
You bleeding heart liberal bastard!
I agree, but we do need to finish in Iraq and welfare needs to be reformed IMO.
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marihuana.
-Gun control kills!
bigj480 wrote:You bleeding heart liberal bastard!
I agree, but we do need to finish in Iraq and welfare needs to be reformed IMO.
Reformed, how? It was already reformed during the "Contact with America" days when the Republicans first regained control of Congress. Everyone is always wanting to reform welfare, no one ever says how or why.
---
zero wrote:I find it funny that in todays world anyone with an opinion different then what some people believe are "drinking the kool-aid" or "toeing the party line". I'm sure there are conservatives who think this way but it seems to be a mostly liberal thing. They don't seem to understand, or refuse to believe, that lots of people think that abortion is wrong, that welfare needs to be cut WAY back, that we're in Iraq and we need to finish the fight.
It's hardly a liberal thing. Rumsfeld has been blasted all week for equating those who don't support the president with Nazi's appeasers. And how many times have Republicans accused people of dissent of things ranging from treason to being unpatriotic?
Too many people these days confused dissent with disloyalty.
---
im just sick and effing tired of hardcore liberal or conservative party members voting for someone or something they dont believe in/agree with just because it is the option that "their" party supports.
how about everyone get out of the whole "party" mentality and stop trying to seperate ourselves FROM one another.
the world needs alot of things fixed/changed. dividing ourselves into seperate groups and then squabling does nothing. we need to come together to fix things.
how about instead of being republican or democrat, we choose to be right/just/fair/appropriate/selfless in all possible situation.
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