was at a "Das Fest" this weekend for a friends geburtstag, and we had some convos late at night on morals and what would yoooooooooou do type stuff..
question:
for all those who are dead set in religion, you basically believe GOD created everything, have the power to destroy everything, and is basically the HNIC when it comes to life.
so the question to anyone, but more specifically people who chose not to believe in EVOLUTION and not the one Batista, HHH, Ric Flair and Orton were a part of....
why is it, that you consider GOD to be so powerful and great, but yet you DENY the fact that someone or more or less SOMETHING sooooo great couldnt invent a species that evolves?
in realistic terms, thats selling something you believe is truly great, short of dues in terms of creation.
I don't know.
That's a tough statement for a lot of people to make, to admit not knowing. It's the basis for inventing religion, to explain the unexplainable and provide society control. As an "all powerful" being has created you, the universe and everything in it, you are "commanded" to follow their rules.
Evolution challenges this because if we're evolving forward, then we must have evolved from something and not created. What we evolved from would be the divine creation, not us. And once you've proven one part of a religious book wrong, the rest becomes suspect as well.
There are people who believe that God has their whole life planned out for them. I envy those people. When something goes wrong in my life, I have to step up and take total responsibility, there's no pillow for me to land on. When you challenge one of the fundamental properties of God by discussing evolution, you are threatening to take away that "safety net" that God has their whole life planned out. If God didn't create us, then we are totally on our own.
I accept that I don't know why we exist, I don't know what humans will evolve into and that I have no comfort from a leather bound book full of stories about how I came to be.
That's the thoughts of a devout athiest. No offense intended, just my point of view.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
John Wilken wrote:I don't know.
That's a tough statement for a lot of people to make, to admit not knowing. It's the basis for inventing religion, to explain the unexplainable and provide society control. As an "all powerful" being has created you, the universe and everything in it, you are "commanded" to follow their rules.
Evolution challenges this because if we're evolving forward, then we must have evolved from something and not created. What we evolved from would be the divine creation, not us. And once you've proven one part of a religious book wrong, the rest becomes suspect as well.
There are people who believe that God has their whole life planned out for them. I envy those people. When something goes wrong in my life, I have to step up and take total responsibility, there's no pillow for me to land on. When you challenge one of the fundamental properties of God by discussing evolution, you are threatening to take away that "safety net" that God has their whole life planned out. If God didn't create us, then we are totally on our own.
I accept that I don't know why we exist, I don't know what humans will evolve into and that I have no comfort from a leather bound book full of stories about how I came to be.
That's the thoughts of a devout athiest. No offense intended, just my point of view.
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couldn't have said it better.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
The Pope recognises evolution.
In 230AD St. Athanasius wrote about "created evolution"
The only religious people who deny evolution live in North America.
Creationism is terribly misunderstood here and it is a localised phenomina.
There is no Biblical evedence to support the "poof" there it is "creationists"
One more time.. The Bible supports a "created evolution"ary model, the church supports created evolution. The pope supports Created evolution, and it's not a new Idea, it's centuries old. Reaffirmed by St. Thomas Aquinas, and again by JPII.
Please give me a break, there is no argument between the church and good solid science. Evolution cannot be denied, only the degree and depth of that evolution is up for debate. Life from nothing is not supported.
As Athanasius put it "God planted the seeds of life" and allowed it to mature.
The whole argument is moot.
PAX
God actually allowed evolution to happen so we would invent sliced bread, then he could have PB&Js while he watched us nuke each other, he likes creamy Jif and grape jelly.
cool thing is sometimes he gets the unsliced and uses the whole loaf as a jelly dipper just for nostalgia, he told me so it must be true.
So basicly Ha^4 you are saying god is like GM, he created a @!#$ty base moel human and that's what we had to work with and then we had to come up with our own aftermarket support, evolution. The warranty we got sucks too.
Is a curious arguement that has been raging for centuries, and probably will. I get lots of bad stares when i even suggest creatio-evolutionism (kinda of a Marchi-ism). Why is it that God could not set forth the spark, and that spark develop to man? Who here can define what a "god day" is or how long?
I have issue with the fact that man evolved from monkeys just based on physiology and gene structure as we aren't that far removed from pigs, dogs or reodents either (hence why they are used in different testing applications and that is another war topic I am sure).
I don't argue the fact, becuase if God created the world in one fell swoop, then where did the fossils come from? If the world evolved from a "Big Bang" why can't we find one slid shred of evidence that supports it eitehr (all I have seen are theories).
Yeah I know going to watch this and see what happens.
I don't believe in creationism, but rather a guided evolution. The comedian Eddie Izzard has a great little skit on this.
I had a chemistry teacher whom with I talked about this also a believer of God, Ala, whatever you want to call it. The problem with the "christians" your dealing with is they are very close minded. There is nothing to say the big bang was'nt the method to start everything.
The Fifth Miracle, by Paul Davies. Is a great book. He came and spoke when I was working at NIST. Very good take on evolution. I don't know if he covers it in his book, but in the talk he explained that his belief was that there was some external force to "assist" in pushing evolution on a path, but not precisely what that force was, be it a deity or some quantum law pushing the Universe towards life. He also elaborates on why parts of Darwins theories are unplausible.
-Chris
I believe in creationism! Sure I do! I believe ALIENS came to Earth millions of years ago and made us all. They've been tampering with our DNA ever since. All hail out alien masters!!!!!
See how creationism can have it's balloon popped now? See how you can force them to admit that it's just another "God did it!" argument again?
Darwin didn't know everything and he made a lot of mistakes. However, the theory itself is sound. You don't have to know WHY a theory works to know that it works. Just look at Isaac Newton and gravity. We still use his mathematical formulas to send probes into space and he had no idea exactly WHY gravity worked. He just knew that it did.
So the whole idea that evolution is impossible, or that no one has ever seen it at work is ridiculous.
Just take this dog:
Now you look at that chihuahua and answer me two things #1: Do you think it's even possible that this animal lived in the wild thousands of years ago?????? #2: And if they did, where are they now?
I can take your garden variety house cat and plop it down next to an African wild cat (which is a fully wild animal) and they'll be near twins. Can't exactly do that with the taco bell dog and a wolf now can we? Yet they share DNA, so what happened?
Creationists will argue that this is "micro evolution" and that they believe this DOES occur, but not "Macro Evolution" which is new species entirely.
Bull@!#$.
Evolution is evolution. Whether it's happening on a large or small scale. Also, it'd help if they could keep it straight in their heads what they mean by "Micro" evolution. Depending on who you ask this could mean microbes and other small things, or slight cellular changes in animals. Besides, this again shows that they don't bother understanding how evolution works. Small changes lead up to big changes. This whole micro macro thing was invented because only a total freakin moron would deny that flu viruses don't evolve to outwit our immune systems and vaccines. Same with the Dog VS Wolf thing. You can't argue what's in front of your own eyes can you?
Know what I'd love to do? Take a baby gorilla to a meeting of Christian women. They're all mothers and the momma instinct is going to kick in the second they see this baby in a diaper with 10 little fingers and 10 little toes who cries and cooes and acts pretty much exactly like a human newborn. Then if they can tell me they don't believe we're related I'll at least respect the depth of their stupid conviction.
Here's a good Google Video
"Creationist Kent Hovind Reveals The Truth About Dinosaurs And Evolution!"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2528412371399195162&q=squid&pl=true
Just to be clear, I don't believe in the creationist view of things. But just watch this video for a few minutes (it's really long). You if weren't fairly solid in the theory of evolution, you could be persuaded to believe this guy.
Since most Americans' aren't even solid in basic math and reading anymore, it's no wonder to me that people like this get other people to think the same things.
---
See: My tagline.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Agustin: Most Americans aren't solid in ENGLISH... let alone math.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
And we're still evolving. There are people who contract HIV and carry the virus for the rest of their natural life without ever showing a symptom, then there are people who contract HIV, get full-tilt AIDS and are dead within a year. The genetic trait to be succeptable to HIV is being eliminated from our species. Eventually ALL humans will have HIV but it won't matter, as their genetics won't be affected by it.
Aliens... I love the alien theories, especially since ufo sightings are almost nil now that everyone had a video camera. I guess Billy Bob has to find another reason why his a$$ hurts in the morning after he got drunk on grain alcohol the night before. Maybe it wasn't aliens doing the "anal probe" after all. Maybe it was his funny neighbor in the pink overalls and KD Lang t-shirt.
And Gam, what's really scary is that most Americans are PROUD to speak poor English and be bad at math. Thank you, mtv.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
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I'm a practicing Catholic and I know that evolution is real. I believe that God created all the necessary ingredients for little microbes to form little fish, then crawl out of the ocean and start walking around, then after a few million years, we have Elisha Cuthbert. It seems like some people on this site have all religious people completely figured out. It's real easy to lump all religious people in one big pile but we're all different.
In response to this little saying by nightwish, the Finnish band?
Quote:
There is no God; Our creed is but for ourselves
~Nightwish
There is a God, you can choose to not believe in him but that doesn't make him any less real. Sorry.
zero wrote:I'm a practicing Catholic and I know that evolution is real. I believe that God created all the necessary ingredients for little microbes to form little fish, then crawl out of the ocean and start walking around, then after a few million years, we have Elisha Cuthbert. It seems like some people on this site have all religious people completely figured out. It's real easy to lump all religious people in one big pile but we're all different.
In response to this little saying by nightwish, the Finnish band?
Quote:
There is no God; Our creed is but for ourselves
~Nightwish
There is a God, you can choose to not believe in him but that doesn't make him any less real. Sorry.
just asking, but who lumped you into one big pile?
beginning of my third paragraph i wrote SPECIFICALLY whom, aka the group, i refer to.
just making that known.
on a side note, its kinda cool to see a catholic person with that view. nothing like that came from any priest or sis at my catholic 8th grade or high school for that matter.
John Wilken wrote:
And Gam, what's really scary is that most Americans are PROUD to speak poor English and be bad at math. Thank you, mtv.
That is something that truly and deeply irks me. Pride in ignorance, calling poor speech "plain talk" like it's a virtue, stating things simply is one thing, but blowing apart the english language like Cotton candy in a hurricane... I really do worry about these things, it doesn't bode well when speech degenerates.
Anyhow, on with the show:
Quote:
And we're still evolving. There are people who contract HIV and carry the virus for the rest of their natural life without ever showing a symptom, then there are people who contract HIV, get full-tilt AIDS and are dead within a year. The genetic trait to be succeptable to HIV is being eliminated from our species. Eventually ALL humans will have HIV but it won't matter, as their genetics won't be affected by it.
The people that you're talking about are prostitutes in Africa (Nigeria I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong... near the supposed epicenter for the pandemic), and they have un-naturally short life spans to begin with, but the disease in its newer permutations is losing the ability to rapidly infect and disarm the immune system. Types A-F are still the most virulent and wide-spread, but the strains up to J are confined to that area last I checked.
Quote:
Aliens... I love the alien theories, especially since ufo sightings are almost nil now that everyone had a video camera. I guess Billy Bob has to find another reason why his a$$ hurts in the morning after he got drunk on grain alcohol the night before. Maybe it wasn't aliens doing the "anal probe" after all. Maybe it was his funny neighbor in the pink overalls and KD Lang t-shirt.
That scares me even more than the diminishment of the english language.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
What Zero wrote is official Catholic dogma. Has been for centuries. Like I said in my previous post, the ideaq of "Created Evolution" comes from St. Athanasius, reaffirem by St. Thomas Aquinas, then again by JPII.
PAX
Catholic Dogma includes Elisha Cuthbert?
Damn...
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Zero:
In all reality, it could be construed that God both exists and doesn't--and one doesn't affirm nor deny the other within a gamut of different perspectives.
However. God exists for you, God doesn't exist for me. I could go into reasoning, but that would take awhile. As such, I'll elaborate on why i took that quote:
Much of the time, with the exception of a few like, say, hahaha, people use God and religion in all forms to justify their actions as a way of bringing other people in alignment with what they are saying, usually for personal gain. After all, how many times does someone admit that they know what God wants, and how many times is what they believe God wants aligned with what they themselves want?
More often than not, God, whether God exists or doesn't (since the most i can come up with is a Quasi-existance based upon relativistic perception outside of my own), How often is God used as a bargaining tool?
Hence, "Our creed is but for ourselves."
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Hahahaha wrote:LOL very funny smartass 
PAX
What?
Does it?
Don't hold out on me here, man!!!
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Think about RELIGION itself. Why was it invented? What was the greater purpose? Why would a contradictory book be written and pasted together (talking about the King James here) and taught as truth in some sects of Christianity?
The overarching goal of religion is to communicate morals and virtues to a large number of people and encourage the development of faith. With no mass communication besides spoken word, its hard to get the idea of right/wrong to the world's population. Religion, fear of an Almighty, and wonder at miracles; add to that a lack of education in the masses and you have a very receptive, very susceptible group of people who will easily believe in SOMETHING greater than themselves.
Personally, I have faith in myself, and believe there is nothing greater than myself. I realize I'm not perfect, but nobody is. I believe in a handful of morals and virtues which govern my life: honesty, faith in oneself, and common sense (ok, maybe common sense isn't a moral or virtue, but its a necessity lol). I believe this is what religion sought to teach so many years ago, but I believe it has evolved into a business.
My god is the shiznit!!!
look him up, he can beat up your god/jesus/alah/whatever...
go to google and type in "Chuck Norris" you should be able to learn everything about him...
Orlandomon wrote:My god is the shiznit!!!
look him up, he can beat up your god/jesus/alah/whatever...
go to google and type in "Chuck Norris" you should be able to learn everything about him...
I was a fan of Carlos Norris until he did that "Walker: Texas Ranger" theme song. After hearing that theme song I felt a very deep need to cause injury to anyone in a cowboy hat. "And the yeyes of the ranjuur har upuuuun youuuuu..." ugh, just thinking about it makes my ears bleed.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
John Wilken wrote:Orlandomon wrote:My god is the shiznit!!!
look him up, he can beat up your god/jesus/alah/whatever...
go to google and type in "Chuck Norris" you should be able to learn everything about him...
I was a fan of Carlos Norris until he did that "Walker: Texas Ranger" theme song. After hearing that theme song I felt a very deep need to cause injury to anyone in a cowboy hat. "And the yeyes of the ranjuur har upuuuun youuuuu..." ugh, just thinking about it makes my ears bleed.
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doood, chuckles would mushroom stamp you from 40 feet without unzipping his pants....
