http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060817/pl_nm/security_eavesdropping_dc_10
By now most of you have hear that warrantless wiretaps have been considered illegal--at this phase. What are your opinions?
Me? Glad someone finally has sense to back the constitution. I'd rather deal with the looming threat of terrorists than the looming threat of governmental tyrants.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I agree. The goverment has no right what so ever to be eve's dropping into anything without having a warrent approved by a judge. That could be warped into listening to anyone by labeling them a terrorist or supporter of terrorism.
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I'm still using my randomly dropped "Osama" "terrorist" "al-Queda" during phone convo's...
oh hell... where'd those black SUV's come from...
I never understood why this became such a hotpoint in debare. Why doesn't the government do what it's always done? Tap the person's house regardless of the law then "accidently" find some evidence implicating them in a crime and storm the place with a legal warrant??? That's the way it was always done before. Have people really become that stuck up on the rules. Whatever happened to the old motto It's better to ask forgiveness than permission
Sheesh... some people.
Jeremy Knox wrote: Whatever happened to the old motto It's better to ask forgiveness than permission
I thought that motto only applied to interaction with girls... Silly me.
Jeremy is right, they've tapped phones without a judge signing off, and now that everything is tech'ed out, they don't even have to visit your property to install one. I don't believe the BS that ALL phone conversations are monitored, but if big brother wants to give you a wedgie, you're going to get tapped.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
ehh whatever, let em tap my phones..i never had a problem with it in the first place mainly because i just didnt give a @!#$. Wait till something blows up and then people are going to cry that the goverment didnt prevent it...its hard if they cant tap suspects phone lines..
It's sad because it's not like the fisa courts made it all that difficult to obtain the warrant. However, it's good to know that the courts decided
WARRANTLESS wiretaps were illegal. I've got no problem with the government eavesdropping on people...when they have a warrant because there is a justifiable reason to be listening.
Bingo, Tristan.
And like I said, I'd rather deal with the looming threat of "terrorists" than i would the looming threat of tyrants in our government.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Jeremy Knox wrote:I never understood why this became such a hotpoint in debare. Why doesn't the government do what it's always done? Tap the person's house regardless of the law then "accidently" find some evidence implicating them in a crime and storm the place with a legal warrant??? That's the way it was always done before. Have people really become that stuck up on the rules. Whatever happened to the old motto It's better to ask forgiveness than permission
Sheesh... some people.
Because that's a stupid motto used by people who know they are about to do something wrong!
Further, the government shouldn't ever do this. Just because it's out in the light that makes it alright?
Anyone who thinks this is OK to violate our constituional rights doesn't appear to know their history. What about when Abraham Lincoln suspended the Writ of Habeas Corpus, Japanese Internment camps, the House Un-American Activities Committee and Joseph McCarthy during the Cold War? Many people have their lives ruined and for what? What good came in the end?
The constitution was SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN to protect the citizens from the government, and to prevent one branch of the government from being all powerful. You may not think it is such a big deal now, but if the President's branch of government continues to become more and more powerful, the only piece left is the election of a power-starved individual to permanently ruin our democracy.
I have to tell Republicans this all the time. You may trust Bush with these powers, but would you trust Hillary Clinton with the same power?
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I wouldn't trust either with that power. Hell, i wouldn't trust ME with that power. After all, all power corrupts, but absolute power is even more fun.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]I wouldn't trust either with that power. Hell, i wouldn't trust ME with that power. After all, all power corrupts, but absolute power is even more fun.
Agree 100%
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Kardain...you definitly take my approach to things...i don't know how many times i've said things like that while talking to Miška...
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
They absolutely need to tap the phones for the sake of our safety. Maybe for a while you'll feel safe. But when the US starts to turn into Iraq with massive amounts of terrorist attacks. Then the democrats will start whining that we arnt secure enough. Even though they are voting against everything that will keep us safe.
^^ It scares me that you can make a statement like that without making any argument to validate your opinion.
How come anti-phone tap people like myself can state all kinds of reasons of why it shouldn't happen, but pro-wiretappers only have "WE'LL ALL DIE IF WE DON'T!!"?
Just wondering.
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I think the only people that will die are the ones that are afraid to die, 'cause the ones that aren't know you can't trust the government for your safety.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
^^ no kidding
I think if there is any lesson we can learn from the Bush administration, it's that one. The government cannot be trusted with your safety. On any level.
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AGuSTiN wrote:^^ no kidding
I think if there is any lesson we can learn from the Bush administration, it's that one. The government cannot be trusted with your safety. On any level.
Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said "When you compromise freedom for security you get neither"?
And what if random wiretaps were still legal? What would the government do with information that wasn't revelant to terrorism? People who would have otherwise never been caught will be under arrest. Politicians and other public figures would have to fear that every word they spoke could end up on tv. Lawyers couldn't have private conversations with clients, so legal strategy would cease to exist. Even the stock market would be effected from inside information getting passed around.
What would be next after wiretaps? Tracking your car with a government GPS? In Ohio we have "region" stickers in addition to our county stickers on our license plates so cops can tell at a glance if you live in that area or not. It was supposed to be to assist in catching people trying to buy drugs but it's become an easy mark to give tickets to people who don't vote in that community.
Keep wire taps illegal without a warrant. They're still going to do it, but they'll have to do it on the sneak.
.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Quote:
Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said "When you compromise freedom for security you get neither"?
It's something closer to "Those who would surrender a little freedom, to gain a little security, will lose both and deserve neither."
At least according to Civ4
"i promise we won't get drunk, and go out in boat in the dark, stand up in the boat and fire the gun into the air unless we have life jackets on."
John Wilken wrote:AGuSTiN wrote:^^ no kidding
I think if there is any lesson we can learn from the Bush administration, it's that one. The government cannot be trusted with your safety. On any level.
Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said "When you compromise freedom for security you get neither"?
No, it wasn't, but it makes for good copy
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
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And what if random wiretaps were still legal? What would the government do with information that wasn't revelant to terrorism? People who would have otherwise never been caught will be under arrest. Politicians and other public figures would have to fear that every word they spoke could end up on tv. Lawyers couldn't have private conversations with clients, so legal strategy would cease to exist. Even the stock market would be effected from inside information getting passed around.
This is the reason that a Project like Echelon is complete fantasy. Random wiretaps were a tool of the Soviet Government (okay KGB) and then the FSB until the advent of digital communications with strong encryption cyphers. Now with rolling cyphers, you're going to have a AWFUL time of getting information out of a call unless you have a courts-authorised wire-tap which allows a provider to de-crypt, record and transpose your conversations and all routing information. If you want a bit of a wake up call: It's in your cellular providers agreement if you are a pay-as-you-go customer, depending on the provider, they don't even need a court-order and will transpose as requested by law enforcement.
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What would be next after wiretaps? Tracking your car with a government GPS? In Ohio we have "region" stickers in addition to our county stickers on our license plates so cops can tell at a glance if you live in that area or not. It was supposed to be to assist in catching people trying to buy drugs but it's become an easy mark to give tickets to people who don't vote in that community.
That's colouring outside the lines... and if it could be proved, would have a VERY, VERY interesting result.
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Keep wire taps illegal without a warrant. They're still going to do it, but they'll have to do it on the sneak.
If it's done, any information/evidence of a crime could not be acted upon unless there is evidence enough to suggest that it would have been found eventually.
The CIA and NSA (and other security agencies in the chinese rope-puzzle you have for a security establishment) work on different rules, so the process is different, but, if there is any action taken on US soil, it has to happen within the same rules the State/Internal Federal Agencies have to observe. Outside the US, well... that's OUTSIDE the US.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
From Wikiquote:
Quote:
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."
I wasn't too far off
Pretty interesting that it was Richard Jackson, not Benjamin Franklin... I'd never heard that before.
"i promise we won't get drunk, and go out in boat in the dark, stand up in the boat and fire the gun into the air unless we have life jackets on."
I'd heard that a long time ago, Bartlett's Quotes had mis-credited a lot of sayings to Franklin and Andrew Jackson... took a while to rectify.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." is the correct quote. I <3 Wikiquote.
^^
Let me ask you this... more people die in traffic accidents every YEAR than have ever died in terrorist attacks. So would you submit your car to be controlled by satellite, hard-limited to the speed limit of whatever area you are in, and allow devices that the police can shut down your car remotely, and track your movements so they can quicky resolve the fault of accidents.
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