Here's the deal... I'm buying a header, cat and pipe from Summit Racing. I don't want to weld in a bung for the downstream o2 sensor so I've also got the part number for the o2 simulator. The salesman at Summit informs me that they are out of them, and they are discontinued.
I call Jegs for the o2 simulator. The salesman at Jegs informs me that the government has made the o2 simulator illegal and once inventory is sold out, that's it.
So with all the trucks belching black smoke, busses, the steel mills, the rubber plants, the chemical factories, etc etc that are dumping cubic tons of pollution into the air, our government decides that the way to improve air quality is to make an almost useless sensor a manditory item.
My commute puts my car on the road for less than 1 hour per day. Busses and semi trucks run all day with a 3 inch soot pipe ineffeciently spewing diesel dirt the whole time. The steel mill downtown runs 24/7 with one of the smoke stacks putting out enough hot pollution that it burns at the top. This is all fine with our government, but modifying a small engined car? NO!
Whatever your opinion on using an o2 sim vs other options, the government shouldn't be worrying about such a small percentage of the population that modifies cars and creates such a small increase in pollution.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
As much as I loathe government in all it's forms, i have to disagree for one reason:
I think the reason they banned them was because the majority of the populace were installing them on their grocery getters (since i believe they wwere maybe $100 max) rather than spending about $600 for a replacement CAT, and in some of the more polluted areas in the country (Ohio does rank up there), that would be a massive issue with everyone commuting with basically a cat bypass.
In other words, I think it was starting to become a large percentage of the population.
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(1 Dec 04) Dodge Truck - 1; Cavalier - 0. Car is totaled.
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Deisel engines are way more efficient than your cavalier.
Also a bus carries up to what? 50 people your cav? 5?
Trucks can carry what 15000lbs of payload, your cave? Maybe 1500.
And the sensor is not useless. If you need it fixed make some tuning software and bypass the sensors.
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Sappy96 wrote:Deisel engines are way more efficient than your cavalier.
Also a bus carries up to what? 50 people your cav? 5?
Trucks can carry what 15000lbs of payload, your cave? Maybe 1500.
Deisels are effecient? They have less parts, but I'd hardly call a 3 inch pipe belching black smoke "efficient".
Busses can carry 50 people, but they're not full all the time. Busses and trucks also run all day (and trucks all night) without any form of emission testing.
Sappy96 wrote:And the sensor is not useless. If you need it fixed make some tuning software and bypass the sensors.
JerseyKid wrote:Quit Bitching.
Read the op again, I'm replacing the whole exhaust including a new cat. I'm not looking for a band-aid repair on a bad cat.
I'm just PO'ed that trucks and busses can run all day no matter how polluting or mis-tuned they are, and now there's ANOTHER regulation about my car.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Diesels only smoke under load, when at cruise they are just as clean as any gasoline engine and go twice the distance on the same amount of fuel. If that isn't more effiecient then something is wrong in rightsville.
Then there's the fact that cars outnumber them by a huge margin.
O2 sensors are not useless, not only do they help you car run more efficiently, they also aide in finding problems and can serve as early warning for impending problems.
Diesels run a bit cooler, meaning they put out far less deadly NOX emissions (invisible). The black soot you see from a diesel exhaust is 99% carbon. Carbon itself isn't really a "pollutant" per say. It is a particulate that is listed as a polutant but when it hits the ground, it causes no harm.
PAX
John Wilken wrote:Sappy96 wrote:Deisel engines are way more efficient than your cavalier.
Also a bus carries up to what? 50 people your cav? 5?
Trucks can carry what 15000lbs of payload, your cave? Maybe 1500.
Deisels are effecient? They have less parts, but I'd hardly call a 3 inch pipe belching black smoke "efficient".
Apparently some one didn't pay attention in physics class. Diesel burns cleaner than diesel.
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diesel burns cleaner then diesel huh? you mean gas?
Sappy96 wrote:Apparently some one didn't pay attention in physics class. Diesel burns cleaner....
Only when they're running right. I was a dockman for a few years, a semi with a dirty injector is nasty, and one diesel forklift with a dirty injector is reason to have all the dock doors open even in the winter.
My point in the op is that diesels aren't emission tested, can run as poorly as they want or as "patched up" as they want. Cars have a ton of regulations, and now there's one more about the downstream o2 sensor.
If diesel is such a cleaner fuel, why isn't the government legislating replacing all gasoline engines with diesel?
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
DropTopPaul wrote:diesel burns cleaner then diesel huh? you mean gas?
Lol yeah. It was late.
You also have to realize that trucking and the rail industry are a big part of out countries infastructure. The whole country needs them. You realize the mroe cost they make manufactures/ shippers pay will just get passed on to the consumer anyway.
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Here is a quick ratio off the top of my head that I am making up...
1:10,000
Ratio of trucks to cars
1:100,000
Ratio of busses to cars
Just thinking in my head. What would really have an impact on the environment?
Quote:
Diesels only smoke under load, when at cruise they are just as clean as any gasoline engine and go twice the distance on the same amount of fuel. If that isn't more effiecient then something is wrong in rightsville.
Then there's the fact that cars outnumber them by a huge margin.
O2 sensors are not useless, not only do they help you car run more efficiently, they also aide in finding problems and can serve as early warning for impending problems.
Diesels run a bit cooler, meaning they put out far less deadly NOX emissions (invisible). The black soot you see from a diesel exhaust is 99% carbon. Carbon itself isn't really a "pollutant" per say. It is a particulate that is listed as a polutant but when it hits the ground, it causes no harm.
I agree with hahaha. I believe this may be a first! When you're right, you're right. What can I say.
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Huh?!? Whatdoya know?
There's a first for everything.
PS: there is a newly developed diesel aircraft engine and a motorcycle engine as well. They are not top performaers but the aircraft can fly higher than a gasoline piston engine plane because of the lower O2 requirement. The bike is still underpowered for its weight but developement continues and this is a good thing.
Of course Honda has a fuel cell bike as well.
Things are moving in the right direction however slowly. We may even get there someday.
PAX
Diesel aircraft engine?? WTF are you talking about. They use JP-4 or JP-8 which is almost deisel anyway.
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Sappy96 wrote:Diesel aircraft engine?? WTF are you talking about. They use JP-4 or JP-8 which is almost deisel anyway.
Not an axial flow turbine, an actual diesel engine. With pistons and whatnot. If I meant jet, I would have said jet, and they're far from new being invented in the 30s and first flown in the 40s.
In the past diesel (piston engines) didn't have a good enough power to weight ratio to be considered for use in light aircraft. A new engine (I think out of Gemany) has been certified for flight use within the last couple years and should be commercially available soon.
Notice I also said it can fly higher than a gasoline piston engine? Why would I bother mentioning that if I was talking about jet engines (good to nearly 60K feet)? The conventional piston / gasoline engine cannot breath properly above 14K feet (much like a human). The piston / diesel engine can get up to something like 18K feet, making it even more efficient.
Hopefully that clears it up for you. Think piston engine and light aircraft.. Add diesel.
PAX
Quote:
Notice I also said it can fly higher than a gasoline piston engine? Why would I bother mentioning that if I was talking about jet engines (good to nearly 60K feet)? The conventional piston / gasoline engine cannot breath properly above 14K feet (much like a human). The piston / diesel engine can get up to something like 18K feet, making it even more efficient.
\
They can get a lot higher than that, the effeciency just drops off quickly. Many American WWII fighters could reach 45 000 feet (Thanks to turbocharging - higher altitude = lower density air = higher exhaust velocity = more boost; doesn't cure the problem but somewhat alleviates it), and German fighters could reach 35 000 or so, thanks mostly to their mechanical fuel injection.
I still agree with what you're saying; jets can go much higher(The U2 can reach 80 000'), and diesels aparently can as well; but the lowly gas piston deserves some more credit
I'll have to look this new diesel up... with turbocharging and modern efi (Not the crap throttlebody injection hackjob lycoming and continental use), it should be able to go pretty damn high; not to mention the diesel cycle's and compression ignition's effect.
"i promise we won't get drunk, and go out in boat in the dark, stand up in the boat and fire the gun into the air unless we have life jackets on."
OK, you are correct about military aircraft. This was designed for civilian use so I ws comparing it to other civilain aircraft. Just to be clear.
PAX
I see what you mean... a V12 Merlin to a POS flat 4 or 6 is apples to oranges.
"i promise we won't get drunk, and go out in boat in the dark, stand up in the boat and fire the gun into the air unless we have life jackets on."
- makes me sad to!
