The latest terrorist attempt to blow up 10 planes was foiled. The UK govt has arrested most of the people (21) suspected in this plot and stepped up security to "red". Early reports are that the bombs were liquid based and hidden in sports drink bottles. Every security step we take they find a way to get around it. The next step could be to surgically implant a bomb inside someone to get through security.
This is why we need to get out of Iraq and any other mid-east country now. They aren't able to beat us on the battle field, so they go after us with terrorism.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
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and do u think by leaving that these terror attempts will stop?
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Josh wrote:and do u think by leaving that these terror attempts will stop?
Let's put it this way... I don't get along with my neighbor because he shovels his dog's crap over the fence into my yard. He's bigger than me and owns guns, so I don't want to fight him. So to "get even" with him, I key his car.
If my neighbor didn't shovel crap into my yard, I wouldn't have keyed his car. In much the same way, the US has been shoveling crap into the desert, and they've been trying to "get even" with us for doing it.
I don't think ALL terrorism will stop against us if we leave them alone, but as long as we're messing with them, they're motivated to mess with us.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
no, thats a terrible analogy. these people are religious fanatics. their is no reasoning with someone who has been raised to hate everything about you, wants to kill you, and doesn't mind dying in the process.
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Josh wrote:no, thats a terrible analogy. these people are religious fanatics. their is no reasoning with someone who has been raised to hate everything about you, wants to kill you, and doesn't mind dying in the process.
They've been raised to hate us because we've been screwing with them for generations. They are justified in raising their children to hate us because we have consistantly made their lives worse by sticking our noses into their business. We sell weapons, give weapons, send soldiers, weapons inspections and legislate sanctions against them. It's been going on for a long time, as recently as Iraq, going back to before you were born with Carter and the Iranian hostage situation.
The only way we can "win" against these people is to leave them alone, which will take away most of the motivation to "get even" with us.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Josh wrote:no, thats a terrible analogy. these people are religious fanatics. their is no reasoning with someone who has been raised to hate everything about you, wants to kill you, and doesn't mind dying in the process.
If they are so gung-ho to get us, how come we've had one terrorist attack against us in the last 5 years? You're telling me hundreds of millions of people can't get it togethre to do better than that?
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It goes far beyond shoveling @!#$ in their yard. Even if we weren't in their part of the world they'd still attempt terrorist attacks. Its the whole ideology of it. America is viewed by them as the Evil Empire, anything they can do to hurt us will reward them in death.
Pulling out will not stop this. My position is still we shouldn't be over there, but wether were over there or not there will always be terrorism so long as ideals conflict.
Also the stuff that doesn't make it to the press is the stuff that would make you @!#$ a brick. The Agency's do a damn good job of stopping terrorism.
-Chris
IamRascal wrote:It goes far beyond shoveling @!#$ in their yard. Even if we weren't in their part of the world they'd still attempt terrorist attacks. Its the whole ideology of it. America is viewed by them as the Evil Empire,
em·pire Audio pronunciation of "empire" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mpr)
1. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
What you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would they attack the Evil Empire if we stopped acting like one?
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IamRascal wrote:Pulling out will not stop this. My position is still we shouldn't be over there, but wether were over there or not there will always be terrorism so long as ideals conflict.
Ideals can conflict without blood shed. We had that with the USSR for about 25 years, it was called the cold war.
IamRascal wrote:Also the stuff that doesn't make it to the press is the stuff that would make you @!#$ a brick. The Agency's do a damn good job of stopping terrorism.
Augustin, we don't hear about every foiled terrorist attempt. Two guys from Marietta Ohio were just busted buying a large quantity of prepaid cell phones and preparing to send a large amount of cash to fund terrorism. Details are still sketchy but they are a small piece of a bigger group.
The agencies do an excellent job of keeping things out of the media, but I have CNN on right now. They're discussing how terrorists removed the stuffing from a doll and were planning to use a digital watch for a detonator. It's like a "how-to" show, here's your terrorist ideas. The news shouldn't report step-by-step guides to making bombs complete with hardware store chemical lists.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
John Wilken wrote:The latest terrorist attempt to blow up 10 planes was foiled. The UK govt has arrested most of the people (21) suspected in this plot and stepped up security to "red". Early reports are that the bombs were liquid based and hidden in sports drink bottles. Every security step we take they find a way to get around it. The next step could be to surgically implant a bomb inside someone to get through security.
This is why we need to get out of Iraq and any other mid-east country now. They aren't able to beat us on the battle field, so they go after us with terrorism.
.
Are you serious? Ok well we werent over there right before 9/11 so what explains that attack?
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Let's put it this way... I don't get along with my neighbor because he shovels his dog's crap over the fence into my yard. He's bigger than me and owns guns, so I don't want to fight him. So to "get even" with him, I key his car.
If my neighbor didn't shovel crap into my yard, I wouldn't have keyed his car. In much the same way, the US has been shoveling crap into the desert, and they've been trying to "get even" with us for doing it.
I don't think ALL terrorism will stop against us if we leave them alone, but as long as we're messing with them, they're motivated to mess with us.
Horrible anology. There motivation to mess with us is not because we are over there. again. 9/11
You anology makes sense if we are talking about us and canada. Say we start messing with canada for no reason. We are bigger than them so they do little things to get back at us. Once we stop, they stop, because we are afterall, good neighors who have no reason to hate each other.
However, The middle east doesnt like us. They @!#$ hate us. So even if you were to stop "keying your neighbors car," hes still going to shovel @!#$ over the fence, just like he did in the first place for no reason.
How many times are we going to battle about if we should or should not be in Iraq. There has to be better things to talk about. It is my whole world right now and even I am getting sick of it.
Back to the topic at hand. Way to go UK! (about time they did something to pay us back for 2 WW's
) Shows that the security measures that were stepped up, although a pain in the ass, has been effective. It's not fool proof, but hey, it's paying off! I think I am going to bitch a whole lot less next time I have to wait in security lines. (Well, until my weak American mind remembers it. Usually about 2 weeks.
)
Even if we mail everyone in the world a million dollars and there would still be people who want to blow us up. It's just a fact of life. No amount of pulling troops out, minding our buisness, ect will change that. Leave it at that.
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The latest terrorist attempt to blow up 10 planes was foiled. The UK govt has arrested most of the people (21) suspected in this plot and stepped up security to "red". Early reports are that the bombs were liquid based and hidden in sports drink bottles. Every security step we take they find a way to get around it. The next step could be to surgically implant a bomb inside someone to get through security.
This is the topic, FOCUS.
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RaiLS wrote:How many times are we going to battle about if we should or should not be in Iraq. There has to be better things to talk about. It is my whole world right now and even I am getting sick of it.
Back to the topic at hand. Way to go UK! (about time they did something to pay us back for 2 WW's ) Shows that the security measures that were stepped up, although a pain in the ass, has been effective. It's not fool proof, but hey, it's paying off! I think I am going to bitch a whole lot less next time I have to wait in security lines. (Well, until my weak American mind remembers it. Usually about 2 weeks. )
Even if we mail everyone in the world a million dollars and there would still be people who want to blow us up. It's just a fact of life. No amount of pulling troops out, minding our buisness, ect will change that. Leave it at that.
Quote:
The latest terrorist attempt to blow up 10 planes was foiled. The UK govt has arrested most of the people (21) suspected in this plot and stepped up security to "red". Early reports are that the bombs were liquid based and hidden in sports drink bottles. Every security step we take they find a way to get around it. The next step could be to surgically implant a bomb inside someone to get through security.
This is the topic, FOCUS.
Right that should be the topic. However if it was the topic, we have one in OT and this is a respost.
The OP made it clear that the point of his post was to bitch and whine as usuall and talk about why we need to pull out of the middle east because its whats causing these attacks..
John Wilken wrote:[
Augustin, we don't hear about every foiled terrorist attempt. Two guys from Marietta Ohio were just busted buying a large quantity of prepaid cell phones and preparing to send a large amount of cash to fund terrorism. Details are still sketchy but they are a small piece of a bigger group.
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Again, 100's of millions of people and they can't get us? You expect me to believe we're just that damn good at stopping terrorists? Have you seen the reports on the FBI and CIA issued by the government, about their ineffeciency? I don't buy it.
Rosario wrote:
Are you serious? Ok well we werent over there right before 9/11 so what explains that attack?
We've been in the middle east forever. What are you talking about?
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Nathaniel O'Flaherty wrote:the middle east does NOT HATE AMERICA
religious facsists hate us. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
Either way, why throw gasoline on a fire?
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
AGuSTiN wrote:John Wilken wrote:[
Augustin, we don't hear about every foiled terrorist attempt. Two guys from Marietta Ohio were just busted buying a large quantity of prepaid cell phones and preparing to send a large amount of cash to fund terrorism. Details are still sketchy but they are a small piece of a bigger group.
.
Again, 100's of millions of people and they can't get us? You expect me to believe we're just that damn good at stopping terrorists? Have you seen the reports on the FBI and CIA issued by the government, about their ineffeciency? I don't buy it.
Rosario wrote:
Are you serious? Ok well we werent over there right before 9/11 so what explains that attack?
We've been in the middle east forever. What are you talking about?
Sorry im at work and dont always have time to type out and explanation. I mean we didnt have our entire army over there performing raids on villages and what not.
Quote:
the middle east does NOT HATE AMERICA
religious facsists hate us. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
Again sorry, i dont always have time to type out full explanations. I was just generalizing.
Nathaniel O'Flaherty wrote:the middle east does NOT HATE AMERICA
religious facsists hate us. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
EXACTLY! I'm tired of people making excuses for them. How long are we going to try and appease these people?!
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Josh wrote:
EXACTLY! I'm tired of people making excuses for them. How long are we going to try and appease these people?!
That's the problem right there... We're not trying to get along with anyone, we're taking over countries and butting in to other people's wars.
WHEN we're involved in this Isreal/Lebanon dealio, do you think terrorist attacks will decrease or increase?
They can't beat us heads-up in a war, so they sneak around and plot civilian attacks. Every time we stick our noses in, they find another way to screw us right back.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
John Wilken wrote:Josh wrote:and do u think by leaving that these terror attempts will stop?
Let's put it this way... I don't get along with my neighbor because he shovels his dog's crap over the fence into my yard. He's bigger than me and owns guns, so I don't want to fight him. So to "get even" with him, I key his car.
If my neighbor didn't shovel crap into my yard, I wouldn't have keyed his car. In much the same way, the US has been shoveling crap into the desert, and they've been trying to "get even" with us for doing it.
I don't think ALL terrorism will stop against us if we leave them alone, but as long as we're messing with them, they're motivated to mess with us.
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John, I sincerely WISH it was that simple.
The US bares the Brunt of the blame, but, there are a lot more factors at play... Religion, politics, and oh yeah, money and oil.
Most of the people involved in terrorism abroad from their homes are not poor, indigent or stupid... they're usually middle-class to lower upper class, intelligent and religiously motivated. Bare this in mind, and you'll be a lot better prepared to deal with these organisations; assuming they're all mentally challenged or insane is folly... they're pretty calculating these days.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:John, I sincerely WISH it was that simple.
The US bares the Brunt of the blame, but, there are a lot more factors at play... Religion, politics, and oh yeah, money and oil.
Most of the people involved in terrorism abroad from their homes are not poor, indigent or stupid... they're usually middle-class to lower upper class, intelligent and religiously motivated. Bare this in mind, and you'll be a lot better prepared to deal with these organisations; assuming they're all mentally challenged or insane is folly... they're pretty calculating these days.
I don't believe the terrorists to be mental cases. Maybe the guy who straps a bomb to himself is a little "off", but he's not a real threat. The person who
convinced him to strap a bomb to himself is the real threat. The leaders are the ones we have pissed off, and they tell the weak minded what to do. It would be the same for us if the Pope publicly said this was a "holy war" and all good Christians should take up arms against the non-believers. Sure, most of us wouldn't blindly go hunting at 7-11, but there would be a significant percentage who would just because the Pope said to. Don't say it can't happen, look at what happens at abortion clinics and with "extreme" Christian groups.
Has China had any issues with terrorism from the middle east groups? Nope. They leave that part of the world alone.
I disagree, it is that simple... Stop butting in to their business and they will stop trying to retaliate. It works for China, it can work for us too.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
It seems to me, that the need to meddle in other's affairs and tell them that your way is the only right way and every other way is wrong (read: human nature) is the alpha and omega of this issue.
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
China doesn't f**k around with people though. They also are exploiting outside oil reserves because by becoming a SERIOUS drain on foreign oil, they leave their own oil resources more or less untapped, and that way they're keeping themselves in a prime position for longer-term cheap oil dependancy.
And the people that are uneducated aren't the problem, make their lives a little better, and someone closer to home will find a way to suck them dry. The middle people are that profit from the terror, and the higher ups use terrorism as the foil to gain political power and monetary power. Stop them, and you stop terrorism COLD.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:China doesn't f**k around with people though.
And they don't have the problems with terrorism that we do. Seems like they have the better foreign policy.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:And the people that are uneducated aren't the problem, make their lives a little better, and someone closer to home will find a way to suck them dry.
A fool and his money...
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote: The middle people are that profit from the terror, and the higher ups use terrorism as the foil to gain political power and monetary power. Stop them, and you stop terrorism COLD.
The problem with trying to stop the middle and upper terrorists is the same as stopping drug dealers, there's always another one to take their place. The only "control" we have over terrorism seems to be to make everyone hate us and then arrest the sloppy ones we can actually catch.
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John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
China's foreign policy is the same as the USSR's... They also tend to make deals before they decide to invade someplace, this is a recent idea that seems to work... they're also a repressive government.
Drug dealers? They don't usually equate with terrorists: Drug dealers are motivated by money, and nothing else from top kingpin to bottom level dealers.
Terrorists espouse an ideaology, and profit from that as their central philosophy.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
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Maybe the guy who straps a bomb to himself is a little "off", but he's not a real threat.
Bro, I don't know about you, but a guy with a bomb strapped to his chest is a real threat to me. I understand that the man that motivates is the brain of the snake, but you have to worry about the bite of the snake too.
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Most of the people involved in terrorism abroad from their homes are not poor, indigent or stupid... they're usually middle-class to lower upper class, intelligent and religiously motivated. Bare this in mind, and you'll be a lot better prepared to deal with these organisations; assuming they're all mentally challenged or insane is folly... they're pretty calculating these days.
While I agree with you on this statement, with the key word being abroad, I have to insert; The poor are the ones fighting the battle in their home land. We never have an educated, wealthy man come in (at least for the past 10 months I have seen). It is the poor guy. The guy who has nothing to lose. The guy who buys into the dream that if he dies while doing this he can leave the hell that is his day to day life and live in total bliss with his 72 virgins.
I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't isolated to just a certain group of people. This religious madness reaches from the lowest beggar to the highest Shiek. I know you are much more rounded then that, so I'm sure you know I am not directing this at you, Matt. Just putting out some info.
And I am not even going to quote all this China hog wash. You know why China doesn't mettle with the rest of the world? It's because China has so many problems in CHINA right now that they just don't.
see: China and their wonderful social structure. If the US was like that we would be internalized in our affairs as well. Not to say we don't have our problems, which we most certainly do, but not at the epic grandure that good old Communism creates when it works its magic. It's like asking the Ukraine for economic support for some impovershed African country. They just have enough of their plate.
NE way, we all know China INF is 4 nOObs.
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