http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/13610/70_Million_American_Adults_Support_New_9_11_Investigation
I haven't heard of the polling company, but if they're releasing statistics they're also offering up their results and methods for scrutiny.
I'd like to see a real, unfettered, unhurried and all encompassing investigation done by either the FBI or perhaps a consortium of agencies (FBI, INS, NSC (et al), ATF...) and overseen by a group of Interpol agencies.
Anyone else think that the wool is getting a little fetid?
Http://www.911commission.gov <-- The Wool?
(As an aside, it should stand to note that the 9-11 commission was only able to be a unanimous panel after Henry Kissinger resigned as chairman after finding an expedient out)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Terrorist_Attacks_Upon_the_United_States
http://www.npr.org/911hearings/
Let's get this started, answer these questions in your initial post:
1: Are you satisfied with the 911 commission's report to Congress? Why/why not?
2: Do you think that the reccomendations made by the commission's report are being implemented, and do you think they will do anything to prevent terrorism in the USA in the future?
3. What, if anything, do you think can be done to make the country a little more secure?
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I didn't know about the particular polling group, but at least someone is asking the questions.
I also don't care who paid for the questions, when the truth is uncovered first it is dismissed out of hand, second, it's violently opposed, and finally it's accepted as though it was always that way.
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This is the real GAM, right?
Next thing you know, Keeper will be making posts claiming how much he likes Fall out Boy and N*SYNC.
Mike: It's pretty clear I'm not buying the official line on what happened, there's way too much that doesn't add up (and it's in at least 2 threads).
If Keeper likes those other bands, I can't help some people's tastes
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1. Yes, wether or not there was a "cover-up," there was a panel of sentators from both sides of the aisle that looked at the same data, intel, and other information. They made a decision, together, and published the report. If some people want to believe that there was a some grand plot to use 9-11 to go into Iraq, then I ask them this question. Why didn't we say that Osama was in Iraq in the first place?
2a. I belive that some parts are. I mean, it takes an eternitiy and a half to get to airport security. I think what happened was a fluke, and no one group will ever be that organized again, becuase it's happened once. We ususally don't make the same mistake twice.
2b. In all honesty, no. We're the point of all irritation. Fledgling countries want to be like us, and others hate us for what we have done/not done. It's one of those types of situaions where you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. We just need to get better at picking the lesser evils.
3. Cut off all contact with the rest of the world. Go back to our isolationist policy of the early 20th century. If we keep all of our own interests here on home soil, we will prevent ourselves from stepping on any toes. But even then, some groups might try to get us to come out of isolation by jarring us awake with a smiliar act of aggression.
In my opinion...we stay the course. Let the chips fall where they may, and hope for the best.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Mike: It's pretty clear I'm not buying the official line on what happened, there's way too much that doesn't add up (and it's in at least 2 threads).
If Keeper likes those other bands, I can't help some people's tastes
I can agree with you, but it's just the way these anti-believers are so vigilant in their "words", it makes them sound like lunatics.
I have no idea what happened, but I know that the people boarded on those planes did not come home to visit their families that day, neither did the thousands in the WTC when it collapsed.
I'm wondering about that though. Mike...
Anyhow... back on topic:
What do you think of the questions I proposed in the OP?
Adam, I ask this in an entirely constructive way, I don't mean to offend:
1: Do you not think that the absolute worst thing that could happen with an independant review (that had full congressional order to search out all materials classified or no, in order to bring 100% of the truth to air) is that everything in the 9/11 commission report could be proven correct?
2a: When was the last time you took an international flight? Do you know that the much of the security procedures training the FAA paid for post-9/11/01 is not being followed? (I had a box of 50 cuban cigars in my luggage when I came back from Sint Maarten, and now I have 45
If procedures were followed, I should have rightfully had to destroy them).
2b: Do you not think that what with Iraq not panning out as having any WMD's, and Usama Bin Laden scurrying off to Pakistan (now Turkmenistan?) that the current administration is actually extremely adept at picking the lesser evil?
Okay seriously, do you think that picking the lesser evil has helped at all?
3: Do you really think that going insular would help anything? I ask because Iraq was invaded (pretty clearly) on self-interest... and at this point, the US couldn't at all provide for itself for more than 1-2 years at the current rate of petroleum consumption... If the US did, infact sever all ties with the outside world, do you not think that it would kill your economy, and worse, disadvantage the US when it becomes forced to re-enter the global scene because of oil starvation?
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Gam to re-open an investigation would be a great idea IF it could ever be done and satisfy ALL the people who keep screaming of a govt cover up. But sadly you and I both know that NO amount of investigations will ever answer every single question asked and that those are the same questions fueling all this conspiracy crap to begin with! So if an investigation were to be re-done to what end and purpose would it serve? I mean no matter of investigation or proof will ever dispel all the nut-so theories out there so wouldn't another one just be a monumental waste of money and time? So what if it answers any questions or not.....no one will ever believe what they say. It'll be just as bad as it is now if not worse.
As for the security deal yes I believe its being over done / abused by the govt. but until the majority of people in this country step up and say "enough" then it will just continue unabated and ad vigorous as ever. So until the
scared masses can be convinced that it doesn't need to be strip searched when getting on a plane to be safe then get used to it. Oh and make sure you were clean underwear as they may mistake a skid mark for gun powder.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Jack: That was why I said to involve outside agencies. Interpol is Multi-national, every UN nation has agreed to allowing Interpol into the country as a means of tracking international crime, and as such is uniquely able to provide impartial investigative oversight.
I also think it's apropos because, none of the terrorists were American by birth (the aircraft hijackers). They all came from either Iraq (one of the 19 9/11/01 crew (as an aside, 10 of those were found alive and well)) or Saudi Arabia. They had logistical support from Jordanians, Afghani Taliban (and by extraction Pakistan), and numerous Mujahadeen organisations (both criminal and religious/relief front organisations) that operate in Europe, North Africa, the Mid-east, Oceania, and North/South America. The scopeis way beyond what a congressional investigation can reasonably have.
I realise (probably better than most) how insanely difficult this will be, however, it's not impossible... The biggest problem is iniative and commitment to finding the REAL TRUTH. The fastest way to sanitise a plot or cover-up is to expose it to sunlight. If there's nothing to sanitise, there's no plot?
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But that will never happen and we know it won't. IF any investigation is done at all it'd be by some Ken Star wanna be out to try to make a name for himself and secure the rights to a book deal.
Nope I'm sorry to say that we will never ever have 9/11 cleared up so its believeable by the masses.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I think there is still evidence that can be had. It just remains to be found, contextualised and presented as what it is.
Seriously, I don't care one way or the other what the outcome is... The evidence and science behind the 9/11 report is just not convincing...
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Oh I agree with you but again to what end would it serve to have untold millions poured into yet another govt. project that would uncover even more evidence that would be refuted and picked apart by the conspiracy theorists
and called a lie and a cover up? Its just throwing good money after bad is all. Hell I'd LOVE better answers about some of the stuff myself but in the end I realize that it wouldn't matter one way or the other as it would never be accepted 100%.
So why bother? We can't change the out come, We'll never change evaryones minds, We'll never convince the skeptics so I see no reason.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
It's not impossible.
And Millions compared to knowing the truth? HELLO, IRAQ!
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And your getting at...........?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
You're talking a full degree of magnitude between the cost of a non-political inquiry (ie millions of dollars) and the war in Iraq (ie billions of dollars). Finding the truth about 9-11 is cheaper than perpetuating a lie in Iraq.
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Finding exactly what happened on 9/11 won't bring our troops home any faster or curb spending in Iraq. The only thing it would do is add more fuel to an already out of control fire that sprang from the attacks in the form of these
conspiracy therioes and no anount of investagating will qwell them all so its quite pointless.
BTW how long were we in Japan and Germany rebuilding them after WWII ? And you honestly think we're gonna be out of Iraq any time soon?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
How long were AMERICANS rebuilding? Not all that long... IIRC 6 years, and most of the effort was in demolishing unsafe structures. Germany had mostly Turkish immigrants to do most of the rebuildin work (France had north Africans and England has Pakistanis). Japan took a little longer to rebuild ostensibly, but then again, the major manufacturing cities (Tokyo, Hamamatsu, Nagano etc.) weren't damaged too badly. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were primarily logistics and naval bases IIRC.
Anyhow...
I understand that it won't give the US an easy out of Iraq, and I'm not suggesting it will, what I was saying was that it would restore a lot of people's faith in the US Gov't if there was full disclosure (meaning Bush, Cheney and all executive staff) given by all interested parties.
Iraq is entirely another ball of wax. That's one place (along with Afghanistan, sadly) where failure to plan has basically made it impossible to finish the job or exit gracefully.
I think, though, that quelling the sense that there was a larger conspiracy behind 9/11/01 and maybe investing some of that "political currency" Dubya was spouting off about in 2005 would reap some dividends for the next President (of whatever party) because he wouldn't have to re-build confidence in the office (ie, Clinton, Reagan, Carter...). You can't deny that most people don't take the president at his word when something comes out of his mouth.
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Japan took almost 9 years to get back on its feet after WWII was over. Germany took less time because we ony had half the country to worry about. So don't expect us to be out of Iraq for at least another 6 to 8 years. Even then we'll always have a presence over there.
As for 9/11 I just don't think that answering any more questions will stop conspiracy theorists from thinking we blew ourselves up. So all that time and money would be for nawt. I just can't see a viable reason to thats all. Sure more answers would be great, but would it be worth it in the end ?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Closure would be nice.
And as for Iraq: 6-8 years would be an extremely optimistic estimate. I seriously doubt that there will be any kind of positive outcome there, I'm not saying this to be a prick, it's because of the missing plan to re-build the country. I think that's going to fall to the next administration, either lose it, or figure out what to do with the mess.
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Yes closure would be nice.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
if they did re-open the investigation though, how do you know that it would offer closure?
1. If they found the same results, everyone would scream like it was the florida ballot recounts.
2.And if they found something different, yeah maybe it would offer some closure ON THIS TOPIC, but then there would be a demand for re-investigation of major "questionable" events in politics (i.e. JFK).
3.Not to mention, how many people afterwards, and even during, will start complaining about how the government is wasting money when they could put it elsewhere.
My first and third points, to me, are most valid. Not to sound insensitive, but why not move on? We have honored the dead and injured as best as we can, and mourning takes time...but the first step to our recovery, it seems, is to move on.
ALWAYS FORWARD
Do I really need a signature?
You don't build a road on quicksand and good intentions.
There needs to be a serious overhaul of integrity, it's seriously lacking or at best flaccid. Politicos need to know that if there is complicity in harming the Citizens, then it is they, not the people that going to be held responsible.
I'm not going to get too much into it, but how badly are you going to let the body politic run rough-shod over you, your rights and freedoms, yet stick you with the bill while they dash out of office? I seriously question the wisdom of just picking up and moving on.
Without JUSTICE there can be no PEACE.
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Nate it would seem agree with me on this one. Closure would be nice but to what end would it really serve?
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
That was the trigger that put thousands of people into combat from many different countries and escalated the tension between the Mid-East and the West. I can't beleive anyone would question its importance.
PAX
