http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194

discuss




<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggaman/personal_pic.jpg">

Oh god here we go again.

I can make a video saying any @!#$ I want and post it on the internet.

Again heres the question I said when the Pentagon video was posted.

What did the government have to gain from doing it?




- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new

I think the implosion of the number 7 building is a interesting enigma, but its not enough evidence to prove anything. Id still like to know why they wont release the video of the pentegon too, they have no problem with the footage of the two towers collapsing, killing thousands, but a plane hitting the pentigon killing no one is too much? Anyway, as said its been discussed and debated quite alot, theres a lot of conspiracy theorys out there.

^^^^

Plane hitting the Pentagon and killing no one??? WTF are you talking about 189 people died there.

Anyways who gives a @!#$ that they wont release the tapes. All your going to see is a plane hitting a building killing many innocent victims. Do we really need to go and show and that on every damn news network and have two gazillion people sit and anayzle it for days on end. I dont think so, infact I dont want to see it is hard enough to watch the twin towers being hit with planes.




- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new

Look for a video called 911 eyewitness.

It is just video (with audio (important)) shot from the piers across the hudson. Very interesting sounds just before the towers fell. 7 really looks like a demolition. Heck, so do the other two. The more you look, the more fishy it seems. There are flashes from a chopper just before the south tower colapses too.

I reserve judgement. Someday it will be explained.

PAX

Rob S wrote:I can make a video saying any @!#$ I want and post it on the internet.

You can blab all you want saying any @!#$, but these guys have supporting evidence for their theory.


<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggaman/personal_pic.jpg">

^^^^

Supporting evidence my ass. These guys are grabbing at straws like crazy.

I'm think I'm going to sit down on my ass today and make a video about Hurricane Katrina was actually planned by the government.


- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new

as a matter of fact they are not grabbing anything. The majority of everything they say is what reporters, FIREFIGHTERS!, police officers, video FOOTAGE and civillians have saw and said. so i guess all those people are dumb idiots.


<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggaman/personal_pic.jpg">

Even Rummy mentions a missle.

They are the only steel buildings ever to colapse with the official cause being fire.

Tower 7 was not the same type of construction, and the telescoping theory cannot apply, so it is the only internal steel structure framed building in history to collapse because of fire. EVER. Even though there are older, taller buildings that burner much much longer without even having the roof dip in.

You can hear the explosions the preceed the colloapse. You can see whitish flashes from a chopper just before the south tower fell. You can see debrish blowing upward and outward. Tower 7 fell as if it was in a vacuum. Over 100 feet in 4.5 seconds. The structure gave absolutely no resistance to the collapse.

These facts are very fishy indeed.

PAX

First thing im gonna respond to is about the government being behind 9/11. Personally i like to think that our government (human beings, who have families and lives of there own) would not be so stupid and dillusional to know what was going to happen and yet still let thousands of people just die. Sounds a little crazy to me. However if it was someday proven that the government was behind it, i think its time to leave this country.

As far as the building collapsing: im no structural engineer but the little i do know from my strengths and materials class is that when steel is heated up it has be compromised, and can no longer hold the weight that it was tested at. The planes were full of gasoline so those floors were burning for quite sometime and once on beam or column fails the rest will follow because there only ment to hold a certain weight. Once one floor collapses the floor it fell on is now holding double the weight.

Kerosene (jet fuel) in a pure oxygen environment burns at just under 1000degF about 1/3 of the melting point of the steel used in that constuction. The fact that the smoke coming from the towers previous to the colapse was black indicates that the fire was subdued, maybe even out. Efficient burning produces light coloured or no smoke in contrast.

Two large and 6 small detonations are heard just before the colapse of the south tower (first to fall). Debris is thrown upward and outward. Molten steel was found 6 weeks later, 7 floors below ground level where the superstructure attached to the bedrock. Firefighters describe the fire from the 78th floor as under control, and they may get it out soon. The building was made up mostly of non-flamable material, what aside from jet fuel was burning? how did the structure melt at the base? What were the explosions both heard on tape and described by firefighters? Why did firefighters descibe the colapse as a demolition like event? Why have no other buildings of this type ever colapsed due to fire, even ones that burned for 19 hours (referring to tower 7)?

Why don't kerosine heaters melt?

PAX

Quote:

First thing im gonna respond to is about the government being behind 9/11. Personally i like to think that our government (human beings, who have families and lives of there own) would not be so stupid and dillusional to know what was going to happen and yet still let thousands of people just die.Sounds a little crazy to me. However if it was someday proven that the government was behind it, i think its time to leave this country.

pearl harbor? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Quote:

As far as the building collapsing: im no structural engineer but the little i do know from my strengths and materials class is that when steel is heated up it has be compromised, and can no longer hold the weight that it was tested at. The planes were full of gasoline so those floors were burning for quite sometime and once on beam or column fails the rest will follow because there only ment to hold a certain weight. Once one floor collapses the floor it fell on is now holding double the weight.

if you watched the video or any news video that day, you would see most of the fuel burned up outside of the building as soon as the plane hit. Also, in the video it mentions that there was a 54 story building that burned for 19 hours! and didnt fall.


<img src="http://registry.gmenthusiast.com/images/jiggaman/personal_pic.jpg">

You can look here too, if you like. A lot of stuff is repeated, but keep reading, they are just showing multiple sources for each little bit.

PAX

Hahahaha: WTC N/S both collapsed because of structural failure due to building design and fire... To my memory, that what the cause of the collapse was listed as in the Fire Marshal's report.

The flooring that supported it's own weight and live weights (ie movable stuff like people and furniture etc.) couldn't hold all that and the weight of the above 3 collapsed floors of debris and a jet liner loaded to the tits with fuel, under the stress of a 700 some degree fire, especially when that heat and stress was warping the central columns. Aside from the jet fuel, the paper, the furniture, the carpeting, the wall coverings, the doors, the accoustic tiles, the wiring, the insulation, people... everything was just gappy, nothing was burning.

Okay, really the racks used to connect the flooring beams gave way, that accounted for the explosions (the floors were almost literally pan-caking ontop of each other.) The liquid metal that was found, I haven't heard about, but, it's not inconcievable that it was strapping from the building or aviation type metal that has a low melting point. Either way, the weight of the debris above generates stress and heat in whatever members are left, and I can concieve that that's why there was molten metal in the load bearing members.

I believe, WTC South's framing was completed after the asbestos ban, so that would account for the increased rate of failure of the building structure when coupled with the heat, there wasn't any fire-proofing on the beams. Whether or not it was by design or luck that the suicide pilots got that part of the building is up in the air.

Building 7, I'm not so sure about. Last I read about it, it was damaged by the debris that blasted out the sides of the N/S towers... whether it was damaged high or low in the structure, I don't know.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

The fire caused by kerosene is simply not hot enough to weaken the members. You must read the engineering reports that are coming out now. Multiple firms and engineering associations agree that a jet fuel fire could not bring those towers down. The fire is just not hot enough, besides, the tape of the firefighters who were inside the building report two isolated and controlable fires with no concern for structural integrity. You really need to see some of the follow up reports, it's very shocking. Then listen to the videos, if it helps, don't watch, just listen. There are definately explosions of some kind that occur seconds before you see the collapse begin. These are much loader and sharper than the sound of the collapse itself. There are also some flashes seen, as well as what appears to be powdered concrete flying outwards as great speed ahead of the colapse "wave" for lack of a better term.

On top of all of that, a fire has never brought a structure of this type down before, ever, anywhere, and yet fire brought three down in one day in one location. The odds are very steep against this.

If you take a good look at the building design, there were sections the were heavily reinforced and designed to able to stop a colapse avove them (three of theses sections in towers 1 and 2) and yet those gave way as well. If you do the math on the rate of fall, the structure did not slow the fall what-so-ever. The top floor hit the ground at the same rate it would have if it fell through free air. The fall is a long one and it's easy to make accurate predictions regarding the length of the fall. Building that fall down on their own do so fairly slowly with a bit of a stuggle on the way down. These buildings fell at the same rate a demolition would. Demolition charges not only cut support out, they also consume the air, creating a bit of a vacuum, exactly what was needed for tower 7 to fall in 4.5 seconds.

PAX

I'm not a building engineer... I read the synopsis of a couple of reports on why the towers fell that were put out just after the clean-up was completed (I think the NY Fire Marshall's report wasn't completed until 2003), but the cause of the collapse was pinned on weakening of the central core due to cumulative effects of impact stress (from the collision), jet fuel fire and prolonged amount of time the remaining members had to carry the unsupported weight of the extra 20 stories of the building.

After that, it was just rapid failure upon rapid failure as the increasing weight of the above floors crashing into the lower ones until there was a complete failure.

If you can show me those reports, I'd like to give them a read.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Quote:

Oh god here we go again.

I can make a video saying any @!#$ I want and post it on the internet.

Again heres the question I said when the Pentagon video was posted.

What did the government have to gain from doing it?

Whats did they have to gain? Um, Bush wasnt really liked, especially after that BS in Florida during the elections. His family is good friends with the Bin Laden family. Oil. . duh. i wouldnt believe all of this video but some things make sense and i have heard them in the past from a teacher at college. This could have been a big plan to make a reason to oust Saddam. i believe he never had anything to do with this. They had to make something big so that they could go for Saddam. not saying that he shouldnt have been taken out of power, but just do it all @!#$ up like this.

Also, there are documents they may have wanted to cover up. Like he says there were documents about Wall Street and all that in building 7. those people are the ones that contribute to Bush and why not help out friends. Cheneys companies are the ones working in Iraq, they got the contracts easily.

The collapsing of the Towers could be explained that they are made to fall straight down instead of onto neighboring buildings. you wouldnt build something that tall and if it falls down that it would compromise buildings around it.

My only problem is, where did all those people go that died. Were they like shot down or blown up somewhere else if this "FBI" plane hit the Towers. from the looks of it, no plane hit the Pentagon and i think we can agree on that, unless they ever show video disproving it. but what happened to the planes that were hijacked. . if they didnt hit the Towers, then where did all the people go?

Quote:

Whats did they have to gain? Um, Bush wasnt really liked, especially after that BS in Florida during the elections. His family is good friends with the Bin Laden family. Oil. . duh. i wouldnt believe all of this video but some things make sense and i have heard them in the past from a teacher at college. This could have been a big plan to make a reason to oust Saddam. i believe he never had anything to do with this. They had to make something big so that they could go for Saddam. not saying that he shouldnt have been taken out of power, but just do it all @!#$ up like this.

Nah but like you said Bush wasnt well liked and the election scandal was thriving. What better way to divert our attention from that then a big national catastrophe? Not only is it distracting the attention away from the election but it also puts good ol Georgie Boy in the control seat with loads of support from the American public. I dont know if I believe all the conspiricy theories or not but there seems to be a lot of shady goins on surriounding this whole situation.

Right up the street from my work there was a fire in a paper recycling plant. Now I'm sure we can all agree paper does not burn NEAR as hot as Jet Fuel. Now the steel beams that supported the roof of that building BUCKLED from the heat and just the weight of its own roof. Now imagine burning jet fuel around steel beams but this time lets add the weight of all those other floors above it. When the steel beams buckled the floors from above collapsed down onto the floor below. No bomb, No missle, no demolision team just a plane full of fuel. Stop being silly you know damn good and well what happened, every time some nimrod brings this CRAP up it dishonors the memory of all those that died that day. All I can say is shame on anyone for doing that.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

GAM.. Start with the stuff linked above.. There'll be more to follow.

It was just like Pearl Harbour, a ticket to war. This time they don't have the excuse of trying to pretend they haven't broken Japanese code. (Coventry bombing anyone?)

PAX

Think about the speed of the colapse and the presence of dust clouds at ground level before the colapse, but after the detonations are heard.

PAX

one more time.. The Fire dept evidence does not agree http://www.rense.com/general39/points.htm

Not determining the truth dishonours the memory of those who died. Not preventing furthur collapse by not investigating may lead to more death. Why were investigators denied access? Why was the evidence destroyed?

PAX

APaper burns at 842 degF similar to kerosene (jet fuel). Did the recycling plant collapse? Buckling sheet metal is not the same as collapsing hardened steel beams.

PAX

Time for a damn Impeachment. people wanted it badly when Clinton had a girl under the desk, but Bush pulls this stunt and no one says anything about it. there is a lot of evidence that can show that the government had some kind of hand in this matter, and the way things go under Bush, i wouldnt doubt it. i remember my teacher even saying that earlier that year in 2001, Osama was in America talking to the CIA. it looks like this was planned for awhile. it was a big deal to get him voted in with all that stuff that went on in Florida, which is bro is the Governor of. And you have to believe his dad tells him everything to do. he is too dumb to know how to do anything. every company he has ever had has gone to crap. and thats what he is doing to us.

Yup the intire roof of the plant caved in, almost killed a couple fire fighters in the process
Now it the weight of the roof was enough to buckle the beams and colapse the roof in on itself why is it so much of a strech to belive that between the burning fuel and the weight of the floors above would deffinently have colapsed then the way it happened.
No bombs, No missle, no demolision teams, just a plane full of jet fuel and the weight of the floors above the fire. 2 + 2 = 4

But the "explosions" that were heard just befor ethe buildings colapsed in on themselves, Um that was the concrete that made up the buildings buckleing and brakeing. Have any of you heard concrete brakeing from stress like that ? Well if you've ever watched a railroad rip down an old concrete structure it sure sounds like a hell of a bang before it falls down. I watched the CSX tear down an old concrete coaling tower, Now true there were indeed explosions but after the charges went off the structure was pulled over by huge craines and when those last 2 legs went in sounded like another explosion even tho it was just the building colapsing.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.