ok well i started cluttering up a perfectly good scion post in a debate/discussion abotu hybrids so i better move it over here

there are some people who dont think hybrids are good, or worth it, or cool, or affordable.

so here is some info:

Increasing the efficiency of cars and trucks can play a significant role in reducing America’s dependency on foreign oil.

If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by one mile per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the amount of oil that could be obtained from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
Raising it by 2.7 mpg would save enough to eliminate all the oil imports from Iraq and Kuwait combined
Raising it by 7.6 mpg would save enough to eliminate 100% of our gulf oil imports into this country
Source: Environmental Attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


Current Incentives
Hybrid car buyers in 2004 or 2005 can claim a $2,000 one-time deduction on your 2004 or 2005 tax returns. Because the tax break is a deduction, its value varies, depending on your tax bracket. If you're in the 33% tax bracket, a $2,000 deduction will reduce your tax bill by as much as $600. If you're in the 15% tax bracket, it could be worth $300.

The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy (ACEEE) ran the numbers, and produced a list of estimated tax credits based on 2005 models and "best-available" information. The numbers may shift when the government issues their tax credit figures, but it's the best educated guess available right now. See ACEEE's analysis of the tax credits.

Current Models
Make Model Estimated Tax Credit
Ford Escape Hybrid (2wd) $2,600
Ford Escape Hybrid (4wd) $1,950
Honda Accord Hybrid $650
Honda Civic Hybrid (auto) $2,100
Honda Civic Hybrid (manual) $1.700
Honda Insight (auto) $2,600
Lexus RX400h $2,200
Mercury Mariner Hybrid $1,950
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (2wd) $2,600
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (4wd) $2,200
Toyota Prius $3,150

Upcoming Models (based on estimated specs)
Chevrolet/GMC Silverado/Sierra $250
Chevrolet/GMC Silverado/Sierra $250
Lexus GS450h $1,300
Nissan Altima $1,300
Toyota Camry $1,300

------------

in alot of these cases the tax deduction u can take makes up almost entirely for the slightly higher price of hybrid over its gas counterpart.

see below:

all prices below are MSRP

2005 Honda Civic Hybrid 5-Spd MT
hybrid= $19,900 - $21,050
non hybrid = 13,600- 18,300

2005 Honda Insight 5-Spd MT w/ AC
hybrid= $20,530
non hybrid = N/A

2005 Toyota Prius 4-Door Liftback
hybrid= $21,275
non hybrid = N/A

2006 Ford Escape Hybrid FWD
hybrid= $26,900 - $28,525
non hybrid = $19,380 - $26,630

2005 Honda Accord Hybrid 5-Spd AT
hybrid= $30,140 - $32,140
non hybrid= $16,295 - $28,850

in addition to to the tax breaks there are MANY states that offer even more perks for having a hybrid.

HERE ARE A FEW
Massachusetts For the years 2006-2010, individuals that purchase a hybrid or alternative fuel vehicle, which can be powered by ethanol, low-sulfur diesel, compressed natural gas, liquefied natural gas, and hydrogen will register for a special placard and receive a number of incentives, including: an income tax deduction of $2000; a waiver for the initial $27.50 application fee for the Fast Lane Transponder; right to travel in HOV lanes regardless of passengers; discounts or free parking in municipalities which choose to participate.

New York New York's Alternative Fuel (Clean Fuel) Vehicle Tax Incentive Program offers tax credits and a tax exemption for purchasing new hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs), alternative fuel vehicles (AFVs), and/or install clean fuel vehicle refueling equipment. Purchasers of qualified HEVs are eligible for a tax credit of up to $3,000, depending on the vehicle's fuel economy. To qualify, a vehicle must draw propulsion energy from both an internal combustion engine (or heat engine that uses combustible fuel) and an energy storage device; and must employ a regenerative braking system that recovers waste energy to charge that device, and, for model year 2004 and later, must meet or exceed the California LEV II emission standard. Current production models such as the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight qualify. The maximum value of the incentive is $5,000 for vehicles weighing less than 14,000 pounds (lbs.) gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR).

California Hybrid Car owners who have purchased their hybrids from San Jose dealers are exempt from local parking fees.

Colorado The Colorado Department of Revenue offers a tax credit for the purchase of a hybrid electric vehicle (HEV), up to $4,713.00.


here is a quick quote from FORD
Dr. Michael Tamor, manager of Ford’s Sustainable Mobility Technologies stated, “If you think about the 15- to 20-year timeframe, you could argue that all vehicles are going to be hybrids. It’s just a matter of which powerplant is used in the hybrid system.” Tamor added, "To freeze time and pretend that hybrids are not going to happen doesn’t make sense.”


here are current and about to be released hybrid vehicles:
Compacts & Sedans
Chevrolet Malibu Expected 2007

Honda Accord Available Now

Honda Civic Available Now

Honda Insight Available Now

Nissan Altima Expected 2006

Toyota Camry Expected 2007

Toyota Prius Available Now

Lexus GS Expected 2006

SUVs & Minivans
Chevrolet Tahoe Expected 2007

Dodge Durango Expected 2007

Ford Escape SUV Available Now

GMC Yukon Expected 2007

Lexus RX 400h SUV Available Now

Toyota Highlander SUV Available Now

Mercury Mariner SUV Available Now

Porsche Cayenne Expected 2008

Saturn VUE Expected 2006

Toyota Sienna Minivan Expected 2007

Trucks

Dodge Ram Expected 2006

GM Silverado & Sierra Available Now



----------------------

so whats everyones thoughts on hybrids?






:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::

If they weren't so damn expensive or goofy looking, I'd get one. Both the Prius and the Civic are mis proportioned, the Insight, well, enough said there.

I like to idea behind them for the obvious reason. but do you REALLY have to make them look so ugly? i know it may be a bit hard to make a hybrid to look like corvette, but come on..

Style is a subjective thing, but, the Honda Insight, and Toyota Prius have less aerodynamic drag than the Vette.

Also, they're meant to hold function over form, and on top of that, they're using regular vehicle crash standards and can achieve highway speeds.

If you don't like the options available, you could always... drive less? Conserve? not floor it? Use the A/C less?

Hybrids are part of the solution, but not a silver bullet. I think making flex fuel engines (like diesels that have a vegitable/kerosene tank) more of a presence is one, and making public transportation more widely available is another facet. Ultimately, you have to face the fact that the average internal combustion engine is only about 23% efficient, and that there has to be another option made available.

I'd take an ugly hybrid that I can fuel with diesel or vegitable oil over a gasoline car that I have to wait 2-3 hours in a line to fuel, and then only be able to put $10 into. I can do this because to me, a car is just a car. I'd like a nice one, but if I have to get by without one, I'll make do.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Hybrids are not an ultimate solution to the problem of fuel expenditure because the majority of the power still comes from fossil fuels. Not that we're running out of oil anytime soon its just getting harder to obtain driving prices up. When we reach the limit there will be an enormous push for electric cars, cars that run on hydrogen cells, and ethanol.

Hybrids are ultimately just going to be a temporary fix to the oncoming crisis. I think that hydrogen powered vehicles are going to be the solution.


____________________________________________________________________

Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.

Honestly, until there is a way to extract hydrogen in extremely high quantity, hydrogen powered vehicles will not be viable. I can see electric vehicles becoming more of a reality before hydrogen.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

personally i like the highlander and the prius, id buy either of em if i had the cash...the highlander hybrid acutally hauls ass


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

Kardain wrote:If they weren't so damn expensive or goofy looking, I'd get one. Both the Prius and the Civic are mis proportioned, the Insight, well, enough said there.

The only hybrids that are pricey now are the Toyota Highlander and the Lexus RX400h.

And the Hybrid Civic looks exactly like the regular Civics. Yes the Prius is funky looking, but it comes with a buttload of standard features.

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Style is a subjective thing, but, the Honda Insight, and Toyota Prius have less aerodynamic drag than the Vette.

Also, they're meant to hold function over form, and on top of that, they're using regular vehicle crash standards and can achieve highway speeds.

thats all true
and if you notice, they are the hybrids that sold the most
becuause you know, that is a hybrid.. which is just retarded in its own right



you would also have to do alot of driving to make up the money over msrp
not all states give tax breaks either


so all in all
its a effort
but we need to focus on different fuels all together

i think some ethanol or other gas will start to be manufactured as a substitute

Another point is, we are dependent on Middle east oil for now because its cheaper to have them drill it and ship it than for us to do it

Basically, we are sucking them dry and then we are going to leave them that way.

Actually, you're Sucking Canada dry, you get over 40% of your domestic consumption of oil from north ot the border. Also, most Saudi Oil is Heavy Sour crude (Iraq has light sweet crude, but there's nothing leaving the wells there... WTF is with that?), so it's dirtier, burns much worse, corrodes parts and is generally colossally higher in sulphur which among it's other side effects gives everyone a healthy yellow glow.

I think it'd be a better idea to conserve what you have, and work on alternatives, because then, you'd have a 1-2 punch of a smaller energy need, and flexibility to use alternatives.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I saw an episode of top gear that tested three small fuel miser cars one gas one diesel one hybrid. The Diesel had the best mileage. Hybrids are ok but you have to drive them gently, when you drive them hard you are rarely running on the electric engine. This wasn't the most scientific comparo and since it was top gear they drove the cars hard. In day to day driving the numbers are prolly different but it's something to keep in mind. From a cost saving point of view I would like to see long term numbers. If you compare the fuel mileage of a hybrid to a non-hybrid equivalent vehicle how long will it take before you recover the price difference? There is also the cost of maintaining the hybrid system, I have heard that the batteries have a ten year life span, I am not sure if this is true but either way how much will they be to replace? From an environmental point of view they are a good alternative to a standard gas engine but I think we need to find a whole new way to get around. We also have to figure out something that will not "pollute in the background" take an electric car sure when it;s running no pollution but there is a power plant somewhere that is most likely burning something to recharge the batteries. I still think that electric is better than gas but it is something to think about.



AmazingJay

inefficient - quasiturbine is the way to go but it will not happen yet because it is still too efficient and by that i mean automakers would not make profit on it because it would cut out of income for automakers because it is far less cost to maintain which means dealers cant rip you off fixing cheap parts



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Gam, as a geologist working in the oil and gas industry (Calgary), you hit the nail right on the head. Nicely done!
It's true that Americans get a huge proportion of their oil and gas from up here. Canada is an exporter of oil and gas - we don't keep any reserves, and ship the vast majority of what we produce south of the border. It's going to be at least 10 years until the oil sands are completely online (as some of you know, there are more hydrocarbon resources in the tar sands than in all of Saudi Arabia), but those resources won't last more than 50-75 years at CURRENT consumption rates. Absolutely enormous resources of methane from methane hydrates (clathrates) on the oceanic continental shelves do exist, but they are extremely volatile and scientists haven't yet figured out a way to safely exploit them. Hydrogen power is quite viable, but in the age of the perpetual terrorist threat (thank you dubya...idiot) it just won't happen (think something 1000x more volatile than nitro-glycerine being stored in big containers at every gas station - there's no way the US is going to go out of its way to let that happen at a large scale). Nuclear power is the cleanest of them all, but people have so many unrealistic fears of nuclear power that I really doubt it will ever make a breakthrough.

The idea of hybrid vehicles are a decent start. One of the biggest problems I see walking around the streets of Calgary (I suppose that Americans could use Houstin or Austin as similar examples, where every 4th person is a millionaire) is that people here who make large quantities of money still drive to work in their hummers, 3/4 ton 4x4s, and monstrous SUVs. They can easily afford to drive a hybrid, but chose to drive the biggest, most inefficient vehicles on the planet as nothing more than a status symbol. None of these vehicles get more than 15mpg in the city (H2 hummers are rated at 10mpg hwy, 6mpg city) yet these people drive them to work every day. Giving a tax break to people who drive hybrids is an OK way to try and convert people, but what really needs to be done is the implimentation of some kind of fuel surcharge/tax for driving these huge gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks so that people who don't need them quit driving them. The only people who really have a need for any kind of 4x4 are ranchers and farmers (I grew up on a mixed beef-cattle/grain farm, and you wouldn't be able to farm without one), and these people should be the ONLY people who are exempt from such a surcharge/tax. Many factory built hi-po sports cars are quite good on gas (for example, the newer 400+hp corvettes are supposed to get 30mpg on the highway, and the 05 mustang GTs (300hp) were 'rated' at 32mpg on the highway. Even if it got 25mpg, that's still better than my old 140hp (if that) V6 1984 Ford T-bird was.
Personally, I don't think gas prices up here are high enough to make people stop and think about their choices in daily driver vehicles. Even when gas hit $1.20/litre here in Calgary people still drove their hummers to work (it is highly unlikely that any of these people live within a 1/2 hours drive from work). I guess it would take something drastic to get these people to change.
Americans can think that they're the be-all and end all of hydrocarbon users, but the entire world should be much more worried about China (and eventually India) than anything else. China has been buying up Canadian oil companies at a shocking rate, and they're environmental policies aren't nearly as stringent as those in North America and Europe. We could pull out all the stops in our neck of the woods, but if those upcoming superpowers don't keep themselves in check we could be in trouble.

I think that Canada should halt licensing of future oil contracts and start filling our OWN needs first. I dunno if you the business side of it UHS (I dub thee!!!! ) but Canada fills oil contracts with the US/other countries first, and we get the dregs and stuck with the bill as well.

And, well, leave it to canucks to deliver a little bit of pro-active thought to a discussion



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Sappy96 wrote:

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:Style is a subjective thing, but, the Honda Insight, and Toyota Prius have less aerodynamic drag than the Vette.

Also, they're meant to hold function over form, and on top of that, they're using regular vehicle crash standards and can achieve highway speeds.

thats all true
and if you notice, they are the hybrids that sold the most
becuause you know, that is a hybrid.. which is just retarded in its own right



you would also have to do alot of driving to make up the money over msrp
not all states give tax breaks either

ALL states have the main taxes i posted. its a FEDERAL tax.

see below

Current Incentives
Hybrid car buyers in 2004 or 2005 can claim a $2,000 one-time deduction on your 2004 or 2005 tax returns. Because the tax break is a deduction, its value varies, depending on your tax bracket. If you're in the 33% tax bracket, a $2,000 deduction will reduce your tax bill by as much as $600. If you're in the 15% tax bracket, it could be worth $300.

The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy (ACEEE) ran the numbers, and produced a list of estimated tax credits based on 2005 models and "best-available" information. The numbers may shift when the government issues their tax credit figures, but it's the best educated guess available right now. See ACEEE's analysis of the tax credits.

Current Models
Make Model Estimated Tax Credit
Ford Escape Hybrid (2wd) $2,600
Ford Escape Hybrid (4wd) $1,950
Honda Accord Hybrid $650
Honda Civic Hybrid (auto) $2,100
Honda Civic Hybrid (manual) $1.700
Honda Insight (auto) $2,600
Lexus RX400h $2,200
Mercury Mariner Hybrid $1,950
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (2wd) $2,600
Toyota Highlander Hybrid (4wd) $2,200
Toyota Prius $3,150

Upcoming Models (based on estimated specs)
Chevrolet/GMC Silverado/Sierra $250
Chevrolet/GMC Silverado/Sierra $250
Lexus GS450h $1,300
Nissan Altima $1,300
Toyota Camry $1,300


THEN i posted LOCAL incentives, and your right that not all states offer these. but they are just extra perks anyways. like CA offering FREE parking or being allowed to ride in car pool no matter the people load.

so most of the models slightly higher cost over their all gas counterpart is completely or very closely made up by the FEDERAL tax EVERYONE can get.

PLUS if u saved 1 tank of gas at $50 each per month throughout the life of a 7 year loan. ud save $4,200 just on gas.

Quote:


so all in all
its a effort
but we need to focus on different fuels all together

i think some ethanol or other gas will start to be manufactured as a substitute

Another point is, we are dependent on Middle east oil for now because its cheaper to have them drill it and ship it than for us to do it

Basically, we are sucking them dry and then we are going to leave them that way.

also i posted the effects of just slightly raising the national average mpg on all cars:

Increasing the efficiency of cars and trucks can play a significant role in reducing America’s dependency on foreign oil.

If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by one mile per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the amount of oil that could be obtained from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
Raising it by 2.7 mpg would save enough to eliminate all the oil imports from Iraq and Kuwait combined
Raising it by 7.6 mpg would save enough to eliminate 100% of our gulf oil imports into this country
Source: Environmental Attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr.


so even keeping the gas engine if we raised mpg through hybrid technology wed be ALOT better off.

but of course the long term goal really has to be to get completely away from gasoline.

-------------------------------


personally i feel the best option would be to create a bio-diesel electric hybrid. since bio diesel is grown you never have to worry about reaching a peak on mining, as well as not draining earths resources.






:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::

this is my only post in this thread, and it's directed at Nathaniel.

if you're concerned about using up fossil fuels, start biking everywhere. don't tell me you can't commute to work, because you CAN. there's a man who lives in Bel Air, Maryland, and commutes to Catonsville, Maryland(feel free to mapquest it) on the back of his bicycle. every day.

when you mapquest it, make siure you click "avoid highways" - you'll find that by CAR, the route is 1 hour, and is 36.02 miles.

this man has been doing this bike ride since his early 20s, and he's currently in his 50s. if a man in his 50s can do a 72-mile round trip ride every day, you can certainly do your daily commute. it's also significantly cheaper than buying a car.



pirates kick ninja asses, f00

falnfenix(gosh, i am a GIRL!) wrote:this is my only post in this thread, and it's directed at Nathaniel.

if you're concerned about using up fossil fuels, start biking everywhere. don't tell me you can't commute to work, because you CAN. there's a man who lives in Bel Air, Maryland, and commutes to Catonsville, Maryland(feel free to mapquest it) on the back of his bicycle. every day.

when you mapquest it, make siure you click "avoid highways" - you'll find that by CAR, the route is 1 hour, and is 36.02 miles.

this man has been doing this bike ride since his early 20s, and he's currently in his 50s. if a man in his 50s can do a 72-mile round trip ride every day, you can certainly do your daily commute. it's also significantly cheaper than buying a car.

absolutely!

if uve seen a few of my other posts i am in teh middle of making a recumbent electric assist trike with a full cockpit. if your not sure what this is look up recumbent trike.

me and my brother are in the frame buildign stages currently.

once done i will be riding this every single day to work.




:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::

Nathaniel wrote:once done i will be riding this every single day to work.

good.

but do me a flavor, if you will...when you do start riding that everywhere, don't bitch about gas prices or other people's gas consumption. just silently chuckle to yourself since you know you're saving money.



pirates kick ninja asses, f00

as logic goes, the ones that are conserving the most gas are the FIRST ones that should be bitching, since they are the ones making real and effective sacrafices.

Quote:

if a man in his 50s can do a 72-mile round trip ride every day, you can certainly do your daily commute. it's also significantly cheaper than buying a car.

first, what does he do in winter?
------

its not all about wether u ride ur bike to work everyday. because take this into consideration, that guy may bike 72 miles per day, but what if the rest of the time hes driving a yukon getting 12 mpg, or a mustang gt.

well then he just may not be conserving all that much, more than if he would if he would drive to work which is good.

but now imagine if for all his driving needs he bought a hybrid.

so now: bike to work + car travel = 55-60 mpg

before: bike to work + car travel = 11-13mpg

conserving gas and other natural resources is and SHOULD be a lifestyle change if your serious about.

and please, dont try to act like biking to work is a better choice than buying a hybrid.

if you own a car, why NOT own a hybrid? they are nearly the exact same price as the all gas counterpart and after federal tax breaks most times they are even the same price as their counterpart. plus local perks like free parking or car pool use.

Quote:

it's also significantly cheaper than buying a car.

this is very simple. if you OWN a car, which you do, why NOT own one that is as efficient as possible? ur going to have one either way. wether u bike to work 72 miles per day, theres times u drive your car. and durring those times would u want 10mpg or 60?





:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::

Nathaniel wrote:as logic goes, the ones that are conserving the most gas are the FIRST ones that should be bitching, since they are the ones making real and effective sacrafices.

Quote:

if a man in his 50s can do a 72-mile round trip ride every day, you can certainly do your daily commute. it's also significantly cheaper than buying a car.

first, what does he do in winter?
------

its not all about wether u ride ur bike to work everyday. because take this into consideration, that guy may bike 72 miles per day, but what if the rest of the time hes driving a yukon getting 12 mpg, or a mustang gt.

well then he just may not be conserving all that much, more than if he would if he would drive to work which is good.

but now imagine if for all his driving needs he bought a hybrid.

so now: bike to work + car travel = 55-60 mpg

before: bike to work + car travel = 11-13mpg

conserving gas and other natural resources is and SHOULD be a lifestyle change if your serious about.

and please, dont try to act like biking to work is a better choice than buying a hybrid.

if you own a car, why NOT own a hybrid? they are nearly the exact same price as the all gas counterpart and after federal tax breaks most times they are even the same price as their counterpart. plus local perks like free parking or car pool use.

Quote:

it's also significantly cheaper than buying a car.

this is very simple. if you OWN a car, which you do, why NOT own one that is as efficient as possible? ur going to have one either way. wether u bike to work 72 miles per day, theres times u drive your car. and durring those times would u want 10mpg or 60?

why did you suddenly feel the need to argue my points?

this gentleman rides in all weather BUT freezing temps, in which case he takes the bus. he DOES NOT own a car. he DOES NOT have a driver's license. in this gentleman's case, it IS the cheapest he can go - and he's done it on purpose. you missed the point of my post. my point? he's managed to avoid having to pay for any kind of vehicle gas. he doesn't have gas in his home. he DOES NOT PAY FOR GAS, and he saves TONS of money. you can avoid paying for it, too, if you really wanted.



pirates kick ninja asses, f00

Nathaniel wrote:this is very simple. if you OWN a car, which you do, why NOT own one that is as efficient as possible?

Quote:



simple answer to a simple question: i can't afford another car...and MY car is paid for. if you want to give me a hybrid - yes, GIVE - i'll drive it. till someone GIVES me a hybrid vehicle with no financial repercussions on my end, i'll drive what i currently own.



pirates kick ninja asses, f00

aaaaaaaaand i suck at the quotingness.



pirates kick ninja asses, f00

^ quotes>faln

Quote:


simple answer to a simple question: i can't afford another car...and MY car is paid for. if you want to give me a hybrid - yes, GIVE - i'll drive it. till someone GIVES me a hybrid vehicle with no financial repercussions on my end, i'll drive what i currently own.

and thats totally fine. obviously if u don thave the $$ u cant do it. nothing wrong with that. i dont have the money to have one either. and thats why im doing other efforts to try and save some moola and the environment.

but i garantee as soon as i have enough to buy a new car it WILL be a hybrid or other alternate fuel vehicle.

Quote:

why did you suddenly feel the need to argue my points?

sorry, seemed like u were trying to say its not practical to buy a hybrid and that everyone should ride their bikes 72 miles per day for commute.

Quote:


this gentleman rides in all weather BUT freezing temps, in which case he takes the bus. he DOES NOT own a car. he DOES NOT have a driver's license. in this gentleman's case, it IS the cheapest he can go - and he's done it on purpose. you missed the point of my post. my point? he's managed to avoid having to pay for any kind of vehicle gas. he doesn't have gas in his home. he DOES NOT PAY FOR GAS, and he saves TONS of money. you can avoid paying for it, too, if you really wanted.

that is amazing than, and the amount he saves must be tremendous!

its not that practical for me to NOT have a car. since i have to drive 40 miles each way to school plus 15 miles from my house to go to work. and the path to get to my school would be EXTREMELY dangerous as many areas have no bike lane 4 lanes of traffic each direction and VERY hilly. not to mention i could not afford to miss out on the 3-4 hours of work that it would take me to bike to school each way. if i missed out on 6-8 hours of work 3 days a week i could not make enough money to go to school. i will however do my house to work commute in my upcoming recumbent.

so while that option is THERE, it is not practical. and thats my point hybrids are EXTREMELY practical. bikes for alot of people are not.



:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::

Rodimus Prime wrote:inefficient - quasiturbine is the way to go but it will not happen yet because it is still too efficient and by that i mean automakers would not make profit on it because it would cut out of income for automakers because it is far less cost to maintain which means dealers cant rip you off fixing cheap parts

i was reading about that......it seems the quasiturbine is the way to go....great engine theory, if only a maker would buy and use it


You'll never touch God's hand
You'll never taste God's breath
Because you'll never see the second coming
Life's too short to be focused on insanity
I've seen the ways of God
I'll take the devil any day
Hail Satan

(slayer, skeleton christ, 2006)

MikeGT wrote:I like to idea behind them for the obvious reason. but do you REALLY have to make them look so ugly? i know it may be a bit hard to make a hybrid to look like corvette, but come on..

408 horsepower

437 miles to a 13.7 gallon tank which equals 31.8 MPG

0-60 in about 4 seconds....

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/volta.html