JBO harbors a few here... raise your hands people. Or are you going to hide your self like the KKK?
Seriously, with these terrorist/nut jobs coming out of the woods and trailers and
Boner as second in line... I dunno... lets just hope we don't make histroy the wrong way.
Quote:
Right-wing extremist militias are enjoying something of a renaissance, Time magazine's Barton Gellman reports, and the resurgence in anti-government rhetoric and action has federal law enforcement officials worried. Why? Well, there's the case of the multimillionaire neo-Nazi who was in the middle of building a radiological bomb to assassinate Barack Obama when he was killed in 2008. Or the story of James von Brunn, the right-wing fanatic who killed a guard at the National Holocaust Museum last year. His bigger target, Gellman reports, was senior White House adviser David Axelrod.
According to Gellman, the FBI, ATF and various state law enforcement agencies have launched a "small but growing" number of investigations into the blossoming militias around the country. The militia movement has been around since the 1970s and was very active in the 1990s, when Bill Clinton was president. But the movement had been on a decade-long downswing before Barack Obama's election and a steep economic downturn -- conditions that one FBI official described to Gellman as the "perfect storm" for recruitment. Gellman writes:
Obama's ascendancy unhinged the radical right, offering a unified target to competing camps of racial, nativist and religious animus. Even Patriots who had no truck with white supremacy found that they could amplify their antigovernment message by "constructing Obama as an alien, not of this country, insufficiently American," according to Michael Waltman, an authority on hate speech at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Perennial features of extreme-right scare lore — including imagined schemes to declare martial law, abolish private ownership of guns and force dissidents into FEMA concentration camps — became more potent with Obama as the Commander in Chief.
Gellman notes that the purported threat to gun ownership crops up as one of the principal causes for alarm among militia members -- even though Obama has studiously avoided any gun control proposals. "Most likely it will start when the government tries to take our guns," one member of the Ohio Defense Forces told the Time reporter, when asked what government aggression he was training himself to repel.
Law enforcement officials aren't worried about mass uprisings of armed militias; the groups tend to hew to the law even as they prepare for the final confrontation. More troubling, officials say, are the so-called lone wolves, who may act on their own after taking the rhetoric of more organized compatriots to heart.
One such figure was James Cummings, a Maine man killed by his abused wife in 2008. After his death, investigators found doses of radioactive uranium and beryllium, purchased from lab supply stores, and a shopping list of other radioactive elements labeled "best for dirty bombs," Gellman reports. Cummings also had undertaken an explosives project, acquiring the ingredients to make the same stuff that so-called shoe bomber Richard Reid used. Cummings had also been able to draw on a $2 million real estate inheritance to help him execute his plan, which was to drive the dirty bomb to Washington and kill Obama. "When you're cooking thorium and uranium under your kitchen sink, when you have a couple million dollars sitting in the bank and you're hell-bent on doing something, I think at that point you become someone we want to sit up and pay attention to," one Maine law enforcement official told Gellman.
Gellman also found that some of the anti-government rhetoric had also, distressingly, spread to local law enforcement agencies themselves. "About a dozen county sheriffs and several candidates for sheriff in the midterm elections have threatened to arrest federal agents in their jurisdictions" if they try to enforce laws judged unconstitutional, Gellman says.
Gary Noesner, a former FBI hostage negotiator who confronted the right-wing radical mindset during the 1990s, recently told Terry Gross of NPR's "Fresh Air" that the threat of violence from the right is on the rise and that politicians bear some responsibility: "Particularly in today's atmosphere, politicians get news media coverage, and they get attention, when they say controversial things. And if they stir up the pot on whatever the issue is -- you know, the mosque issue in New York is a good example of that. It's turned into a very emotional, very volatile issue, and that speaks to a certain constituency. And there's a certain constituency, I think, that can take those ideas to an extreme -- and dangerous levels. So I think politicians should have a responsibility to try to talk about such matters in a more thoughtful way."
(Photo of Michigan militiamen: AP)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100930/pl_yblog_upshot/right-wing-militias-on-the-rise-again
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
As the right-wing extremists here appear to have a hard time understanding who they are, examples like this can be very helpful and illustrative.
Empowering as primitively-motivated and dangerous a sector of society as this...this is one of the extreme right's most heinous sins. While I do lean right, I simply refuse to align myself with such hatred.
why is it that they always have examples that dont match the stories. the story or title was militias. id think if you had a militia it would be more then one person. all the examples they gave were of single people. not militias. story should have been the rise of cooks and crazies. it makes sence though. were in tough time, a democrat was elected in who did big things allot of people weren't happy about, and he's black, not a real shocker.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Soooo ...
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved Acts 16:31
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
" Mark Twain "
Militias do not interest me whatsoever for two main reasons:
Our soldiers are my neighbors, my friends, my brothers. They elisted of their own free will and swore an oath to uphold the US Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic. So, I have no fear of the enlisted man "following orders" and committing atrocities against his neighbors.
Secondly, even if the armed forces went berserk, there's no way some cobbled together group of ex army mechanics, factory workers, and short order cooks, are going to be able to fight a modern army. They might fight guerilla-style for a while, but with satelites, infared imaging, etc..... the resistance would be over in no time.
So, I am a militia of one. My house is stocked for a 2 month catastrophe. I own one pistol and fewer than 500 rounds of ammuniton. I could take care of myself against roving bandits and thugs, but I harbor no ideas of fighting the police or army. That's just ridiculous to think otherwise.
.
“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart
adding onto quicks post, this is partially or hell a good deal of why debates get reduced to grade school fights because you guys automatically come out namecalling and attacking and trying to demonise anyone with a diffrent opinion. with that approach nothing in this country will change. just because a person has a diffrent opinion or ideals then you doesnt make them a monster.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Kevin Trudeau wrote:Militias do not interest me whatsoever for two main reasons:
Our soldiers are my neighbors, my friends, my brothers. They elisted of their own free will and swore an oath to uphold the US Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic. So, I have no fear of the enlisted man "following orders" and committing atrocities against his neighbors.
You do realise that these are not GI JOES, but vigilantes?
Quote:
Secondly, even if the armed forces went berserk, there's no way some cobbled together group of ex army mechanics, factory workers, and short order cooks, are going to be able to fight a modern army. They might fight guerilla-style for a while, but with satelites, infared imaging, etc..... the resistance would be over in no time.
So, I am a militia of one. My house is stocked for a 2 month catastrophe. I own one pistol and fewer than 500 rounds of ammuniton. I could take care of myself against roving bandits and thugs, but I harbor no ideas of fighting the police or army. That's just ridiculous to think otherwise.
Do you use aluminum or tin for your hat?
sndsgood wrote:adding onto quicks post, this is partially or hell a good deal of why debates get reduced to grade school fights because you guys automatically come out namecalling and attacking and trying to demonise anyone with a diffrent opinion. with that approach nothing in this country will change. just because a person has a diffrent opinion or ideals then you doesnt make them a monster.
Hey, I always say... don't like it, click X & GTFO... simple.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
sndsgood wrote:adding onto quicks post, this is partially or hell a good deal of why debates get reduced to grade school fights because you guys automatically come out namecalling and attacking and trying to demonise anyone with a diffrent opinion. with that approach nothing in this country will change. just because a person has a diffrent opinion or ideals then you doesnt make them a monster.
Hey, I always say... don't like it, click X & GTFO... simple.
No I'm gonna say he is correct. Clicking X is one valid option, and asking you to change your tone is another option. At which point you have the options to click X yourself, keep doing what you are doing, or perhaps consider changing the way you frame your message.
When you do things like this, it is not helpful. It instantly defeats any purpose of anything you posted(unless the purpose was to get someone's blood boiling). If you had any intention of changing a persons opinion(or helping to form it initially), you effort is wasted. Once you get people to go defensive/combative, they will instantly shut out everything you have to say. It doesn't matter at that point if you are wrong or right. Its no longer about
what is correct, and instead about
who is right. At that point, facts become 100% irrelevant. It is not much different when insulting someone either - making insinuations about their intelligence level for example.
Demonizing the people who disagree doesn't just poison the discourse, it clouds your own mind too. Once you start demonizing someone else's beliefs, you start subconsciously sanctifying your own. The process of questioning your own beliefs - critical to free thinking - stops entirely. I'm neither Liberal nor Conservative - I share some ideas from each camp - so maybe its easier from my vantage point to recognize that neither is evil.
Despite all the ignorant rhetoric to the contrary, Liberals and Conservatives
BOTH love America(a few nutjobs on either end excluded obviously). They may have different ideas about how the country should be managed(differences that while relatively small in reality, are distorted and magnified 1,000,000 times by the sensationalist media), but on the whole
both sides are quite patriotic(even if they show it in different ways sometimes). The saddest thing is, i know just how many of you rolled your eyes reading that part. We are all hammered again and again - with just how much one side or another hates America, is up to no good, part of some grand conspiracy...
or is just plain
EVIL.
ETC ETC ETC.
It is hammered again, again, again, and again. A lie repeated often enough can be readily substituted for the truth. I can't just click X. This @!#$ is everywhere you look. Short of shunning all media in all forms and becoming a total social recluse, you can't escape the madness. But its past time for all Americans to grow up and get past all that crap. I'm quite sick of it and I know I'm not the only one.
This poisonous atmosphere actually hurts America. For better or for worse, we live in a connected, information rich age. One effect this has had, is that what occurs in politics - as convoluted as it is - is nearly all available as a matter of public record. Combine that with very partisan voters who watch every vote, and you have disaster. Democracy such as our isn't just about majority rules, its also about compromise and finding common ground when possible. Our forefathers had deep disagreements, but they did come together and they made it work. Its worked all our history til recent years.
But now politicians have spent so much time demonizing "the enemy" that they can no longer negotiate with "the enemy" on anything, else the rather of their base fall upon them. "Washington is broken" - a phrase we hear alot. Its true - and its no wonder. How can you get ANYTHING done without working with "the enemy?" You can't - not without making yourself guilty of political treason. Washington, DC is a self contained civil cold war.
So now we have the government looking to head to a total shutdown - instead of just a virtual legislative shutdown. Just how long do you think America can last like that? You can wreck the economy in numerous ways with only a short term shut down. You start threatening our Military too(not only our national security but also soldier's lives), as well as every aspect of our society if it goes on too long.
Those who think individual states can pick up the slack have no idea how much State funding comes from the Federal Government(especially in the current recession) - thus all state services are also in danger. As Lincoln said, just as Jesus before him - a house divided against itself cannot stand. We don't need external enemies... not when we create them from within. This all needs to change, now. It only continues as long as we let it.
Maybe what I am saying will make a difference - no matter how small. Maybe if this message gets repeated enough and spread person to person, it will make change everything. Maybe its hopeless and I'm just wasting my time. But at the very least I refuse to be part of the problem, and no one can take that away from me.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:I could careless if you bitch with your petty stuff, but apparently you're bothered by "debates get reduced to grade school fights because you guys automatically come out namecalling." If so, save the drama and GTFO.
I can point out on your spelling, but what do we get out of it... nothing. Well... it's pathetic, just like bitching on the name calling. To me, all you're saying is your gas tank is empty.
two kids name calling is not a debate sorry.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
bk3k,
You have a better chance moving moving mountains, then changing the way I respond. I call it how I see, don't like, grow a thicker skin. The moment this petty issue comes up, then the point across is actually working.
sndsgood wrote:Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:I could careless if you bitch with your petty stuff, but apparently you're bothered by "debates get reduced to grade school fights because you guys automatically come out namecalling." If so, save the drama and GTFO.
I can point out on your spelling, but what do we get out of it... nothing. Well... it's pathetic, just like bitching on the name calling. To me, all you're saying is your gas tank is empty.
two kids name calling is not a debate sorry.
And now your argument becomes hypocritical.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:bk3k,
You have a better chance moving moving mountains, then changing the way I respond. I call it how I see, don't like, grow a thicker skin. The moment this petty issue comes up, then the point across is actually working.
sndsgood wrote:Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:I could careless if you bitch with your petty stuff, but apparently you're bothered by "debates get reduced to grade school fights because you guys automatically come out namecalling." If so, save the drama and GTFO.
I can point out on your spelling, but what do we get out of it... nothing. Well... it's pathetic, just like bitching on the name calling. To me, all you're saying is your gas tank is empty.
two kids name calling is not a debate sorry.
And now your argument becomes hypocritical.
ohhhhh you got me. everyone of us is a hipocrite at some point. but as you pointed out. your never going to change and you dont care if you are perceived as a child by others.
but your very responces has kinda proven my point about why things will never change, your very responce "you have beter chance of moving mountains then changing the way i responce" that very reason is why the country is so screwed up. you have two opposing sides in goverment who act like children screaming im right, your a tool im never going to change my way. no one is willing to act like an adult and come up with a plan that is a compromise for both sides.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Quote:
ohhhhh you got me. everyone of us is a hipocrite at some point. but as you pointed out. your never going to change and you dont care if you are perceived as a child by others.
I wipe my ass with what you think of me, so time and time again... why waste bandwidth and pointing this out instead of focusing on what is being talked? Get it?
Quote:
but your very responces has kinda proven my point about why things will never change, your very responce "you have beter chance of moving mountains then changing the way i responce" that very reason is why the country is so screwed up. you have two opposing sides in goverment who act like children screaming im right, your a tool im never going to change my way. no one is willing to act like an adult and come up with a plan that is a compromise for both sides.
Yep, like stated before: when it comes to getting the message across I won't change. When it comes to the political arena, I can change/ adapt for things that worked or will work. Big difference between the two. I would like see the latter happening over in DC, and speaking about "never going to change" your camp is the biggest proponent of that BS, hey... they don't call themselves "
conservatives" for nothing right.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Quote:
ohhhhh you got me. everyone of us is a hipocrite at some point. but as you pointed out. your never going to change and you dont care if you are perceived as a child by others.
I wipe my ass with what you think of me, so time and time again... why waste bandwidth and pointing this out instead of focusing on what is being talked? Get it?
Quote:
but your very responces has kinda proven my point about why things will never change, your very responce "you have beter chance of moving mountains then changing the way i responce" that very reason is why the country is so screwed up. you have two opposing sides in goverment who act like children screaming im right, your a tool im never going to change my way. no one is willing to act like an adult and come up with a plan that is a compromise for both sides.
Yep, like stated before: when it comes to getting the message across I won't change. When it comes to the political arena, I can change/ adapt for things that worked or will work. Big difference between the two. I would like see the latter happening over in DC, and speaking about "never going to change" your camp is the biggest proponent of that BS, hey... they don't call themselves "conservatives" for nothing right.
you wipe your ass with what i think? i use toilet paper personally. much softer.
bk3k got the point across better then i ever could really. the way you try to get your message across and the way you treat people trying to do that just causes people to close there ears and minds to what your are saying. your not going to get anyone to listen to your side when you state your message like you do. the whole "your camp" thing is a great example like i have a camp? according to the test that bill posted, im just about smack dap in the middle. but you choose to make an enemy out of those that dont think the same as you. no diffrent then those in dc. they choose to treat anyone with an opposing view as "an enemy" or "those guys" and nothing gets done. republicans and democrats both have that problem. but how do you expect dc to get over that if you yourself can't/won't get over it either.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:bk3k,
You have a better chance moving moving mountains, then changing the way I respond. I call it how I see, don't like, grow a thicker skin. The moment this petty issue comes up, then the point across is actually working.
My hide is plenty thick enough - I think what you(and most everyone now-a-days) are doing (intention aside) is just plain harmful for America. Its not about "you versus them," its about what is best for all of us.
I previously thought that you where - in your own misguided way - attempting to actually educate/inform people through the use of facts and debate. I was attempting to helpfully point out that your manor of doing so doesn't accomplish anything - it actually just poisons the debate.
But now I understand that I misjudged you greatly. Now I know you only do it to stroke your own ego. Thank you for clearing that up.
sndsgood wrote:the way you try to get your message across and the way you treat people trying to do that just causes people to close there ears and minds to what your are saying your not going to get anyone to listen to your side when you state your message like you do.
Hey truth hurts no, here's the kicker you're still responding. Go figure on your theory of : "close there ears and minds to what your are saying."
Quote:
the whole "your camp" thing is a great example like i have a camp? according to the test that bill posted, im just about smack dap in the middle.
Yhea you do, you identified to the side in old threads, if you want to change camps and flip-flop at the moment to prove a point, if that's your new strategy, so be it. I don't care.
Quote:
but you choose to make an enemy out of those that dont think the same as you. no diffrent then those in dc. they choose to treat anyone with an opposing view as "an enemy" or "those guys" and nothing gets done. republicans and democrats both have that problem. but how do you expect dc to get over that if you yourself can't/won't get over it either.
How ironic, here you are doing the same $hit. You automatically turned me into your "enemy." How? You follow Rush Limbaugh's Right Nut's lead and like a lemming 20+ post later, what have you been doing... focusing all on how I throw my messages instead of the vigilantes out to be a renegade. What is the most hilarious of it all, and I'll be the first to give credit where credit is due, something you A-holes avoid like a sin, ScottAWhite although we have our differences, from my immediate recollection... he will not result to these stupid, petty, pathetic, useless BS pointing out of "childish remark," "spelling," "grammar," "typos." Yes, the same guy that you all gave face-palm pictures to his ridiculous comments. He at least stays focused, you holy martyrs ain't got $hit and as a result... i'm responding to how I deliver my message. What's next Tatche (sp) coming out and giving us the formula for time travel?
bk3k wrote:My hide is plenty thick enough - I think what you(and most everyone now-a-days) are doing (intention aside) is just plain harmful for America. Its not about "you versus them," its about what is best for all of us.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Quote:
I previously thought that you where - in your own misguided way - attempting to actually educate/inform people through the use of facts and debate. I was attempting to helpfully point out that your manor of doing so doesn't accomplish anything - it actually just poisons the debate.
Sorry that I have to be that one that informs you of this. But people go by sound bytes. I can type novels and encyclopedias. But all the years I've been here (2004-2005 in the war section), if you type something against the grain or politically incorrect, $hit will get twisted and topics will be turned to something unrelated, case-in-point... what you are doing now. I think I only had one discussion with you and not once you pointed out like these fools did. But planets aligned and you decided on the lemming route and take the low road route. What ever works for you I guess, but don't expect me to adapt to something you want.
Quote:
But now I understand that I misjudged you greatly. Now I know you only do it to stroke your own ego. Thank you for clearing that up.
You're welcomed. And I don't see any difference to what I have been doing for the past 5+years in this section. So why now? You remind me of those Tea-Baggers, Tea-Baggers bitch on exactly what they lived through since 2001, but it took to 2009 with black democrat president to unleash the rage out. Oh well, what ever makes you feel superior and not go postal on the innocent.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:sndsgood wrote:the way you try to get your message across and the way you treat people trying to do that just causes people to close there ears and minds to what your are saying your not going to get anyone to listen to your side when you state your message like you do.
Hey truth hurts no, here's the kicker you're still responding. Go figure on your theory of : "close there ears and minds to what your are saying."
Quote:
the whole "your camp" thing is a great example like i have a camp? according to the test that bill posted, im just about smack dap in the middle.
Yhea you do, you identified to the side in old threads, if you want to change camps and flip-flop at the moment to prove a point, if that's your new strategy, so be it. I don't care.
Quote:
but you choose to make an enemy out of those that dont think the same as you. no diffrent then those in dc. they choose to treat anyone with an opposing view as "an enemy" or "those guys" and nothing gets done. republicans and democrats both have that problem. but how do you expect dc to get over that if you yourself can't/won't get over it either.
How ironic, here you are doing the same $hit. You automatically turned me into your "enemy." How? You follow Rush Limbaugh's Right Nut's lead and like a lemming 20+ post later, what have you been doing... focusing all on how I throw my messages instead of the vigilantes out to be a renegade. What is the most hilarious of it all, and I'll be the first to give credit where credit is due, something you A-holes avoid like a sin, ScottAWhite although we have our differences, from my immediate recollection... he will not result to these stupid, petty, pathetic, useless BS pointing out of "childish remark," "spelling," "grammar," "typos." Yes, the same guy that you all gave face-palm pictures to his ridiculous comments. He at least stays focused, you holy martyrs ain't got $hit and as a result... i'm responding to how I deliver my message. What's next Tatche (sp) coming out and giving us the formula for time travel?
bk3k wrote:My hide is plenty thick enough - I think what you(and most everyone now-a-days) are doing (intention aside) is just plain harmful for America. Its not about "you versus them," its about what is best for all of us.
You are entitled to your opinion.
Quote:
I previously thought that you where - in your own misguided way - attempting to actually educate/inform people through the use of facts and debate. I was attempting to helpfully point out that your manor of doing so doesn't accomplish anything - it actually just poisons the debate.
Sorry that I have to be that one that informs you of this. But people go by sound bytes. I can type novels and encyclopedias. But all the years I've been here (2004-2005 in the war section), if you type something against the grain or politically incorrect, $hit will get twisted and topics will be turned to something unrelated, case-in-point... what you are doing now. I think I only had one discussion with you and not once you pointed out like these fools did. But planets aligned and you decided on the lemming route and take the low road route. What ever works for you I guess, but don't expect me to adapt to something you want.
Quote:
But now I understand that I misjudged you greatly. Thank you for clearing that up.
You're welcomed. And I don't see any difference to what I have been doing for the past 5+years in this section. So why now? You remind me of those Tea-Baggers, Tea-Baggers bitch on exactly what they lived through since 2001, but it took to 2009 with black democrat president to unleash the rage out. Oh well, what ever makes you feel superior and not go postal on the innocent.
Wasted post on the quick copy/paste. Fixed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Today 1:51 PM
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
