Why is it nowadays if you you are a hyper kid that won't behave, or can't seem to get along with others, you are add, ADHD, bipolar etc? Is this a bonafide case of the pharmacy industry pushing drugs on kids who just need a decent breakfast, and the occasional buttwhupping from their parents? I'd like some opnions here


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I believe the conditions are all valid, but I would not doubt that "overdiagnosis" is occurring. But hey, the pharmaceutical industry remains one of the few bright spots in our nation's economy, so it's really hard to get too yanked off at it.

To me, these ADD, ADHD, etc. conditions are only just starting to be understood. I also believe they are one way the human body (mind?) has lagged behind the amazing leaps forward technology has provided in our society. We just can't keep up!

In a world where everything is going by at breakneck speed, we may need to allow human psychological development to catch up at some point.

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:I believe the conditions are all valid, but I would not doubt that "overdiagnosis" is occurring. But hey, the pharmaceutical industry remains one of the few bright spots in our nation's economy, so it's really hard to get too yanked off at it.

To me, these ADD, ADHD, etc. conditions are only just starting to be understood. I also believe they are one way the human body (mind?) has lagged behind the amazing leaps forward technology has provided in our society. We just can't keep up!

In a world where everything is going by at breakneck speed, we may need to allow human psychological development to catch up at some point.

I believe it is given out a bit to much, parents and teachers are using it as a crutch to calm their kids down instead of being better parents teachers doctors etc. but i also believe that it is real and there are people out there that can benefit from it.


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There is a real measurable increase in these cases. There are several theories on it. I have 3 kids, and two of them are, in fact, ADHD. After having discussed their situations with several specialists, I have come to learn that the truth is in the results. For the most part, if a child does not actually have it, the medication will have little effect on them. There is also susbtantial evidence that dietary changes can correct most cases, but some more severe cases do need medication.

I will also agree that it gets overdiagnosed, and people do use it as an excuse. I personally do not let me kids get away with anything. Regardless if a child has ADHD or not, they will learn to get themselves under control with consistancy from parents. More than anything else, inconsistency confuses kids, and they learn that sometimes they get away with things, and sometimes they get in trouble. It causes frustration on their part, since they sometimes get in trouble for things that they don't at other times.

A very interesting concept, which I tend to see very real merit in the case being made for it, is that ADD is not actually a disability, but actually another step in evolution. Most people who have add tend to be highly intelligent, and once they get to the point where they can manage the symptoms so that they are able to funcion, tend to be multitaskers. Many of them also tend to have the ability to grasp concepts faster, figure out things in their head that the average person needs to see on paper, and have the ability to apply creativity to rational thought (in other words, they do not show a dominant side of their brain). I believe that we simply don't know how best to teach someone of this capacity. As we learn more and more about it, I'm sure it will turn out that we are able to take a person who is ADHD and teach them to focus it to positive use. Until that point, we're just going to be working to get them to function as "normal" as possible.

The human brain is probably the most incredibly complex system we have on this earth - and we have yet to crack or decode it. So yes, I believe that these are real - not everything is perfect, and with the power it has, is only magnified.

Is it currently overdiagnosed or used as an excuse? For some many cases, I'm sure yes. Many parents are definitely too slack today, while being overprotective at the same time. My gf is a teacher, and listening to these parental stories is incredible. Where do some of these people get off, seriously. This parenting generation is definitely in the toilet (not everyone, just some).



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do these conditions exist

yes

are far too many people diagnosed with it

absolutely



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Anyone think that this "disorder" might be related to diet and discipline? Look at classrooms in the 50's. Mostly stable two parent homes and home cooked meals withou the processed food and chemicals. Correlation maybe?


“Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented. Oh, oh, the irony!” -Jon Stewart

ScottaWhite wrote:Anyone think that this "disorder" might be related to diet and discipline? Look at classrooms in the 50's. Mostly stable two parent homes and home cooked meals withou the processed food and chemicals. Correlation maybe?

Maybe it's all the increases in tree-hugging, organic hippy crap that they've been trying to make us eat over the years. I mean, in the 50's, we ate like this:



So not only were we eating better, but because more wives cooked like this, there was less divorce, which meant fewer single-parent homes.

Does the sun rise everyday?







Personally dealing with Bipolar Disorder, and reading a book about it right now there is Bipolar I and II. Doctors were misdiagnosing, and still do the disorders. You may find people say bogus because of their ignorance to the information. In the 1950's you didn't complain, or you were "sad" or as still now people self medicate with alcohol and drugs. God knows how many people actually had the disorder because it was clustered into others, dismissed, or the person never went to the doctor for it. The 1950's it was condemn and cast away the unknown instead of trying to understand it.

ADD and Dyslexia patients can learn and become something instead of just being the kid who is acting out. At the same time parents now have to have 2 people working, are high stressed and would like to use excuses instead of dealing with why their kid is bad.





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ScottaWhite wrote:Anyone think that this "disorder" might be related to diet and discipline? Look at classrooms in the 50's. Mostly stable two parent homes and home cooked meals withou the processed food and chemicals. Correlation maybe?

You beat me to it! I was thinking the same thing. On the porcessed food and chemicals.....has anyone noticed the kids being larger (taller) and more developed before their time? My friend is freaking out over his oldest daughter. He's told me she's bigger than his wife on the top end.

Ok, back to your scheduled ADD discussion.

another thing to think about is that everyone states that kids have short attention spans, yet everything is geared for snipets. any type of news show or any show in general seems to change in a second or two. every time you see something interseting on tv like a car you can't see the damn thing because they flips shots of it every tenth of a second. me personally it frustrates the hell out of me because every shot is some close up that lasts for a half second to another closeup all news stories seem to last 30 seconds and then they play that same 30 second snippet 50 times. i dont think the kids have short attention spans, i think society is creating short attention spans, and if you are a kid who has add tendancies i wonder if that makes it even worse. pushes you attention span even further, my kids almost 4 now and i wonder about adhd and such.


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Agreed! If Darwinian principles hold any water, it will take generations for us to fully adapt to the noisy chaotic environment we've created.

I think that over time, a "backlash" movement will emerge. Something along the lines of a "Simplification Movement". Not as extreme as, say, Amish ways of life, but more like mid-20th century society. Less interruptions, less distractions, more quality time.

In the meantime...shovel on the ADD meds, lol!

Bill Hahn Jr. wrote:Agreed! If Darwinian principles hold any water, it will take generations for us to fully adapt to the noisy chaotic environment we've created.

I think that over time, a "backlash" movement will emerge. Something along the lines of a "Simplification Movement". Not as extreme as, say, Amish ways of life, but more like mid-20th century society. Less interruptions, less distractions, more quality time.

In the meantime...shovel on the ADD meds, lol!

that would be neat if it happened, a return to quality over quantity. people taking time to have pride in what they do instead of rushing to put out poor produtcs. people sitting down to enjoy their family instead of talking to them on the cell phone as they go to the meeeting or store or what have you. think its a pipedream though.


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ADD, ADHD and Bipolar problems have been around forever. However, people in the olden days just didn't raise kids with the neurotic obsession towards making them happy that we have today. Hell, until very recently, a child was considered a mostly economic ressource. There was none of that "My child completes me" that you find today. You had kids in order to take care of you when you got older and to take over the farm (if you had one) and to add to the family budget when they were working in their teens.

Parents loved their kids, sure, but it wasn't the same kind of love that you find today. Not one bit.

Back in the 40's if a baby cried, you didn't pick him up. You let him cry until he figured out that crying didn't make mommy or daddy come over any faster. It was the same mentality you're supposed to use on puppies so they don't whine all night. Also, if your kid grew up to be a jerk, people were more likely to give you sympathy rather than sh!t. Parents weren't considered responsible for their kids whatsoever. You showed kids how to tie their shoes and how to work hard and that sort of thing, the end. You weren't supposed to be an amateur psychologist. If a kid was sad or confused, too bad for him.

Also, I seriously believe that the modern world affects these diseases. Whereas in poor countries the symptoms seem to be rendered dormant by the less hectic lifestyles, here they're awakened by wealth. Easy living, it seems, is bad for the mind.

Oh, someone mentionned that multitasking is one of the few positive symptoms of ADD. Actually, I'm sorry to say, it isn't. Scientists tested kids and adults who multitasked and found that they did everything quickly, but badly, and often had to repeat their tasks several times to get them right. It also takes your intelligence and spreads it around so thinly that you only have superficial knowlege of things. Hell, just look at politics today! A bunch of people jumping from one issue to another with only the most basic knowledge of it.

Geniuses are always the same in that they have the ability to concentrate on one thing and one thing only for days if need be. Look at Einstein, look at Glenn Gould. They were near autistic.

see knox, ive wondered though that the parents of the older generation who just let their kids go like you stated created kids who turned into adults who decided that they were going to put there kids on a pedestal. just like your mom tells you to wear a jacket so you say screw you mom and go out without one that generation built the parents of today who coddle and baby their kids to the extreme.

im wondering if a switch is on the horizon of occuring where all these kids who were babied and coddled will decide that they need to make their kids more dependant and more independant creating a swing in the other direction. ive allready heard of some doctors and phycologists who were big supporters of the whole. you cant teach your kid about losing you have to always show them love blah blah blah coming out and saying that hey, i was wrong, this is creating kids who can't cope. im hoping this trend takes off and we go back to teaching our kids good an bad winning an losing.


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In some ways, and this is a stretch I'll admit...but in some ways, it's yet another effect of an overcommercialized society. Marketing to parents has huge profit potential, for they are easy marks, and very numerous. So, for some time now, they've been bombarded with all the "things" that their children allegedly "need", and it's way past excessive. It goes all the way down the line, from toys to foods to little league, etc. etc. "Keeping up with the Joneses" means spending more and more and more.

Now, as a proud father of two well-adjusted children, I'm not blind to their needs either. But today's parents are just continually bombarded with "buy buy buy". It leads to overstimulated, spoiled and uninspired kids in too many instances. Those who are not taught the pleasure of earning what they want as a child, instead of just having it all handed over, will enter adult life hugely disadvantaged.

BTW: This is me digressing; it's got nothing to do with whether I feel ADD, etc are bogus. But I do think the above hyper-marketing and hyper-consuming does lead to overstimulated kids who just don't often enough have the pleasure of letting their minds unwind while they create simple, satisfying ways to spend their time. So, yes...the overmarketing of kid stuff then creates a larger market for ever more ADD-style meds to sell to the kids that are affected. Ah, the USA economy...so driven!

Knoxfire M.D. wrote:Oh, someone mentionned that multitasking is one of the few positive symptoms of ADD. Actually, I'm sorry to say, it isn't. Scientists tested kids and adults who multitasked and found that they did everything quickly, but badly, and often had to repeat their tasks several times to get them right. It also takes your intelligence and spreads it around so thinly that you only have superficial knowlege of things.

That was me, and this supports my statement that we just don't yet know the best way to teach how to make the best of the ability. It's like an ability built into them, but that hasn't been honed, because we don't understand it very well yet. Remember, most of us are using less than 10% of our brain. Your idea that people who multitask and don't do things very well is simply spreading their intelligence too thin could more be explained that, since we don't know how to work on improving the learning ability of this type person, they aren't learning as much as they could be. I've taken my kids to a wide variety of specialists, and there are definitely different views on the subject, even among experts. The idea of it being an evolutionary step for us is a rather controversial one, but the evidence and explanations of it make a lot of sense. One of the doctors told me about a book (IIRC, was called The A.D.D. Miracle) which is written entirely on this concept. I need to find out the author, because I haven't been able to find the book. One of the things that most doctors will tell you is that children with ADD tend to be very intelligent, and have very good memories, which is why I tend to believe this theory. The argument against it is that the ADD is just a side effect of having an active mind.

sndsgood wrote:im wondering if a switch is on the horizon of occuring where all these kids who were babied and coddled will decide that they need to make their kids more dependant and more independant creating a swing in the other direction. ive allready heard of some doctors and phycologists who were big supporters of the whole. you cant teach your kid about losing you have to always show them love blah blah blah coming out and saying that hey, i was wrong, this is creating kids who can't cope. im hoping this trend takes off and we go back to teaching our kids good an bad winning an losing.

I seriously hope so. This whole "everyone wins" mentality has been a pet-peeve of mine. All their life, too many kids are being taught that there is no winning and losing. Then when they get out of school, and they get into the real world, reality hits them like a bag of bricks and they can't deal with it. They expect everything for nothing, and can't handle not getting it.

This thread has mainly focused on ADD and ADHD, Bipolar is a totally different disorder, and shouldn't be in this thread. The book I am starting to read is Bipolar II, and in a chapter I haven't gotten to yet, it has talked about trying to help people with their hypomania(not needing sleep, thinking you can take on anything, being more creative and driven) and using it to their advantage. The thing is, after a short period of that feeling, a massive deep depression comes, along with anxiety and even delusional thoughts. Making it so that the person can't hold a job, brings on periods of days and months incapable of getting out of bed. This leads to loss of job, friends, life. The author, a doctor said he treated patients from the 70's and on, and most of his patients were "the movers and shakers" in NYC. CEO's, Doctors, Lawyers etc. They would only come to see him when they were down, or when someone else noticed that their personality had done a 180. It wasn't until his observations and published studies that other psychiatrists connected the dots.

Now I do believe that today kids are treated like angels and that isn't good. It's made screaming kids run around in stores without their parents batting an eye, almost 25 now when I was a kid my sister and I stood next to our parents with our mouths shut and politely asked things. ADD is bad thing, lack of concentration is horrible, going through different meds I have experienced it and it drives me insane. I was top in my class, top 5% in state tests, a prodigy people once said. So when medications or mood affected my concentration I felt like I wasn't myself. It made things almost impossible to do. So for with the kids and people who actually have ADD I know it's real, and how it affects them.

The chemical affects of the brain are no where near understood so to say things are bogus is not at all true. We are starting to understand the brain, but I do agree that parents cope now with their feelings of failure by setting it up to where their children don't feel the same, until they hit the real world.



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Knoxfire M.D. wrote:Oh, someone mentionned that multitasking is one of the few positive symptoms of ADD. Actually, I'm sorry to say, it isn't. Scientists tested kids and adults who multitasked and found that they did everything quickly, but badly, and often had to repeat their tasks several times to get them right. It also takes your intelligence and spreads it around so thinly that you only have superficial knowlege of things. Hell, just look at politics today! A bunch of people jumping from one issue to another with only the most basic knowledge of it.

Geniuses are always the same in that they have the ability to concentrate on one thing and one thing only for days if need be. Look at Einstein, look at Glenn Gould. They were near autistic.

Its not always like that. I have trouble focusing on only one thing for one specific reason - most things are not sufficiently mentally stimulative. Simple things can not hold my attention. I require complex problems/imagery/etc to keep me occupied. My brain seems to to hate being idle or not sufficiently utilized and as a result I think of many things at once and will change subjects without warning. It creates problems in some areas but gives advantages in others - especially math, imagining concepts, 3d objects in motion, methodical thinking in general. The downsides are that I have trouble thinking of nothing at all - very problematic when I want to fall asleep but cannot stop thinking. It is causing trouble now as I try to focus on this post, and it even causes trouble when masturbating etc(suddenly my mind wonders to completely unrelated subjects LOL).

I've never been on any meds for it but perhaps I should have been - I NEVER did my homework etc because there was no challenge in it - no stimulation - so it was boring but even more so then to most kids. Doing something that is no challenge like that is downright mentally repulsive. All of my teachers told me that I could have been at the the top of my class if I had tried - but I didn't. It might almost be true to say I COULDN'T because my mind would not let me.

Mentioning Einstein etc - I'm not sure he was near autistic or anything of the sort, but I do know that he had school problems like myself. I'd bet he was probably ADD himself. That does NOT mean that you are unable to focus on anything - but the subject needs to satisfy your mind. Physics and such would be no problem for someone with ADD. Neither would advanced concepts of any variety - especially when you are referring to imagining things that are not known to you. We tend to have an advantage in imagining the abstract.

I'd also like to note that being ADD and being autistic are not opposites nor are then mutually exclusive. Autistic people have little to no interpretive functioning in their brain. For example most people (especially speed reading) probably did not notice both places where I used a word twice in a row - the relevant part of the brain(the part that doesn't work well for the autistic) automatically deleted the extra words as to make sense of nonsense. If you where partially/completely autistic then you noticed both instances instantly no matter how fast you read all that. Autistic people don't interpret - they experience things EXACTLY as they are.

Here is an incredibly interesting article. I'd like to try this some time myself.
Savant for a Day

i got ADD some days are pretty bad there are days where it takes me 20 extra minutes to leave the house because i think i left the water on. At work i could do all my daily tasks and at the end barely remember if i did every thing so i have to check every thing over again. When i was a kid in school i did pretty bad in school i tried comunity but flunked because i kept failing math. Do i blame it all on ADD? No it was another nail in my coffin thought. I usualy wonder would be like if I had taken the pills when i was younger. well thats my sob story lol

OK I will go back and read everything later but.....

I have large amounts of experience with this.....

I have been on pretty much every ADD or anti depressant aver made..... and I will never take a mind altering drug ever again (reason why I wont use Chantics to try to quit smoking)


So I am a little biased on this but.....

I honestly and truly believe that 100% of these so called disorders are complete BS

If you are a certain way.... there's nothing wrong with you.... your just being human..... if you have a hard time paying attention to crap its just because you dont care about it or are bored and its completely natural..... if you have to make sure you locked your car door 3 times (I do that kind of stuff myself) while a little strange.... all it means is that your an overly paranoid person and is also normal in the natural world... if your depressed a lot you might have a reason to be or its just your nature.... and if you arnt happy you can find ways to make yourself feel better..... if you have mood swings... well your just an overly passionate person... or just crazy.... but being crazy is natural also...


This is just an accuse for people to say "it isnt my fault im a crazy bitch... I have a disorder" and you know what.... your full of @!#$...

ALL of these "chemical imbalances" or just made up crap to justify people being different... and if you dont fit into this perfect little box that society believes you should fit into they give you a pill that will make you fit in and be submissive...

We actually live in a society where if you dont act a certain way you are talked into having you free will taken away and having your mind altered to conform.... the sci - Fi big brother crap right there but its real...

Screw it..... bet the person you are and screw everyone else.... as for these kids that wont stop bouncing around in school.... they dont have F-ing ADD..... they are just not being reprimanded by thier actions and are being brats because they can get away with it... what they need is a back handing from thier parents not a pill.. and its normal for kids not to pay attention in school..... who the hell likes school.

There are some people with real issues like schizophrenia but thats not what we are talking about...


As for my story.... I actually have a REAL "disorder"...... Tourette Syndrome

Im old enough that when it took effect on me that people didnt know what it was at the time.... and my mom was one of those medicating parents...

A lot of people dont know this but people with tourettes also have a very common side effect..... and its a noticeable increased cognitive ability ( it means that people with it tend to learn differently but much faster than normal and tend to have higher IQ's) When I was checked as kid... I was the same..... the last time was when I 16 and I scored what a 30 year old should and Scored a 154 on the IQ test...

So im this kid doing all this weird crap like saying that corners on pages of books bother me while Im making funny sounds but at the same time being smart enough to realize life is gunna suck at the age of 5 and being pissy because of it...

SO what do they do? I start getting force fed every drug in existence and grew up being told that there is something wrong with me.... I dont even remember a large amount of my child hood because of that....

And the thing was that because there wasnt anything wrong with me.... nothing "fixed" me.... and I almost killed myself once because the prozac my mom had me on did something that all anti depressants can do and my body adjusted to it and instead of making me "happy" the effect completely reversed and made me want to die... (thats somewhat common)....

Around the age of 13 I secretly started to stop taking the pills..... and threw them away or whatever but I was smart enough to wean myself of of them because I knew it was dangerous to stop cold turkey on pills like that.

(by this time my parent where divorced and I lived with my dad so I didnt have my drug forcing mom there to watch me so close) and once I was off them I started refusing to take them in school.... wich caused a large number of problems.... but because I did that I got better..... and my dad and now step mom noticed it... and I finally told them it was because I stopped taking the pills (they where paying for) months ago.... and I never took one again....

I had a very very @!#$ up childhood. I actually had people and teachers trying to FORCE me to take drugs that I knew I didnt need.... thats the world we live in now...... there's something wrong with everyone and its not ok to be different so you need to take these pills and be a zombie because being anything other than PERFECT is just not tolerable...

I still think this is an arguement that isn't valid no matter how you put it, because there hasn't been enough research done in the field. Im gonna say bottom line, though, that I think the medications generally work for people who have been diagnosed correctly. And a lot of symptoms and what not with add and adhd run hand in hand with bi-polar disease, that's why they are talked about together a lot. And I'm a believer that most of these meds work when used correctly. And a lot of the times when someone gives the "I was on it for 3 years and didn't notice anything speech," I usually don't pay attention, because said person was probably diagnosed wrong thats why it didn't work. I'll only be 21 in November, but I think I can say all this with experience.

Weebel wrote:OK I will go back and read everything later but.....

I have large amounts of experience with this.....

I have been on pretty much every ADD or anti depressant aver made..... and I will never take a mind altering drug ever again (reason why I wont use Chantics to try to quit smoking)


So I am a little biased on this but.....

I honestly and truly believe that 100% of these so called disorders are complete BS

If you are a certain way.... there's nothing wrong with you.... your just being human..... if you have a hard time paying attention to crap its just because you dont care about it or are bored and its completely natural..... if you have to make sure you locked your car door 3 times (I do that kind of stuff myself) while a little strange.... all it means is that your an overly paranoid person and is also normal in the natural world... if your depressed a lot you might have a reason to be or its just your nature.... and if you arnt happy you can find ways to make yourself feel better..... if you have mood swings... well your just an overly passionate person... or just crazy.... but being crazy is natural also...


This is just an accuse for people to say "it isnt my fault im a crazy bitch... I have a disorder" and you know what.... your full of @!#$...

ALL of these "chemical imbalances" or just made up crap to justify people being different... and if you dont fit into this perfect little box that society believes you should fit into they give you a pill that will make you fit in and be submissive...

We actually live in a society where if you dont act a certain way you are talked into having you free will taken away and having your mind altered to conform.... the sci - Fi big brother crap right there but its real...

Screw it..... bet the person you are and screw everyone else.... as for these kids that wont stop bouncing around in school.... they dont have F-ing ADD..... they are just not being reprimanded by thier actions and are being brats because they can get away with it... what they need is a back handing from thier parents not a pill.. and its normal for kids not to pay attention in school..... who the hell likes school.

There are some people with real issues like schizophrenia but thats not what we are talking about...


As for my story.... I actually have a REAL "disorder"...... Tourette Syndrome

Im old enough that when it took effect on me that people didnt know what it was at the time.... and my mom was one of those medicating parents...

A lot of people dont know this but people with tourettes also have a very common side effect..... and its a noticeable increased cognitive ability ( it means that people with it tend to learn differently but much faster than normal and tend to have higher IQ's) When I was checked as kid... I was the same..... the last time was when I 16 and I scored what a 30 year old should and Scored a 154 on the IQ test...

So im this kid doing all this weird crap like saying that corners on pages of books bother me while Im making funny sounds but at the same time being smart enough to realize life is gunna suck at the age of 5 and being pissy because of it...

SO what do they do? I start getting force fed every drug in existence and grew up being told that there is something wrong with me.... I dont even remember a large amount of my child hood because of that....

And the thing was that because there wasnt anything wrong with me.... nothing "fixed" me.... and I almost killed myself once because the prozac my mom had me on did something that all anti depressants can do and my body adjusted to it and instead of making me "happy" the effect completely reversed and made me want to die... (thats somewhat common)....

Around the age of 13 I secretly started to stop taking the pills..... and threw them away or whatever but I was smart enough to wean myself of of them because I knew it was dangerous to stop cold turkey on pills like that.

(by this time my parent where divorced and I lived with my dad so I didnt have my drug forcing mom there to watch me so close) and once I was off them I started refusing to take them in school.... wich caused a large number of problems.... but because I did that I got better..... and my dad and now step mom noticed it... and I finally told them it was because I stopped taking the pills (they where paying for) months ago.... and I never took one again....

I had a very very @!#$ up childhood. I actually had people and teachers trying to FORCE me to take drugs that I knew I didnt need.... thats the world we live in now...... there's something wrong with everyone and its not ok to be different so you need to take these pills and be a zombie because being anything other than PERFECT is just not tolerable...

So you think that if someone legitimately has one of these disorders and they have the real need for medication, they are just trying to conform if they take it? Wrong. And that's a heart-wrenching story about your parents making you take the ADD drugs and Prozac, but you said it yourself you were misdiagnosed and didn't need them. But I actually have been diagnosed ADHD for four years, and I'm a firm believer that it was the correct call and I know the medicines help me. I took two IQ tests while in Jr. High and in my freshman year and got a 144 and a 148. But I was getting grades like I was about 80 or 90 points short of that. Was I lazy? No. 3-sport athlete, Eagle Scout, 10 year 4H member, etc...

I can remember, though, when I'd have an exam or just a test and would bring my notes and books home to study. I could pull an all nighter no problem, because I would usually pull an average or 3 or so a week (and still do). Now the funny thing in this thread is a lot of people don't really know what they are talking about and fall for the false impression that ADD's name creates for it. It's not like you can't concentrate on anything at all. You can actually concentrate on whatever interests you 10x harder and longer than somebody else, but you do it un-intentionally and it's everything else that you can't keep your thoughts on. So I would sit down at like 7 or 9 pm.... Would literally read a page while thinking about something else, then get to the bottom of it and have no idea what I read, then re-read it, and hte same thing would happen again. And this seems like it's just starting to become a real pain in the ass, when I look at the clock and see I have to go to class in 20 minutes, and it feels like I've only been at my desk for an hour or so
was
. But I have a high IQ, however it mostly came out when I am composing music or writing lyrics, etc. Before I was diagnosed I could pull a non-stop 8-hour session, and make three tracks in one night. And then people would heard them and either think I was full of @!#$ and downloaded someone else's stuff on the internet, or they didn't believe that I made it in such a short amount of time... but regardless, I could always put my hands on a keyboard and start making beautiful music... not
think about making it, then doing it..... I would just start making it". But anyways the point is that people took me as a major slacker cause they didn't see how I could compose music like I was a truly gifted person, but flunk my classes in high school. And it was a very kind of lonely and helpless feeling, when I was trying very hard and people thought I didn't care. Now I still work on music, however I can apply the that "giftedness", for lack of a better phrase, to my math homework or on a paper, etc...

Of course we all know that it's a stimulant, which is a no-no, even though we drink coffee and caffinated beverages till our teeth turn brown. Myself, on the other hand, I can go to sleep earlier now and stay sleeping longer, because without meds I would lay on my back with my eyes open just thinking and having one obscure thought lead to another one in an endless chain till the sun came up. But when I got diagnosed and was getting treatment, I could lay down and think about nothing with my eyes closed for the first time.

And I also can say that my life is 10x now that I got @!#$ straight with being bi-polar, but that's a whole nother long story lol.

If you where to take the exact definition of ADD.... and look at me..... I have it... and I see myself doing the things that people refer to as ADD and OCD all the time... so if they are real then I do have them.... the thing is that I dont believe they are real disorders... I believe that its just normal for some people to be that way and instead of taking pills to change who you are.... you should learn to use the way you are to your advantage, adjust yourself to lead a normal life, and just be happy with who you are...

Like I said.... my personal experiences are most likely making me very one sided on this and I realize that... but even knowing that... I really do believe that people dont need these pills.

Im not debating that they work when diagnosed correctly.... and make some peoples life's easier... Im debating the actual NEED of them and really do believe that people can lead more happy fulfilled lives if they take the time and work to understand themselves instead of just taking a pill..

Some people are just messed up LOL... its normal...

We all got by fine before these pills ever came out.

As for the brining up of children argument..... if I ever have kids I will most likely raise them the same way I was raised for the most part.... I'm also old enough that when I was out of line I got my ass wooped or was punished.... and I was never put on a pedestal... the idea that adults where adults and I was just a kid was firmly enforced on me early on..... my dad even made me call him Sir if I really pissed him off.

We really do tend to live in a Zombie nation.... and people are way to concerned about the things that are not important and dont pay attention to the things that are.... a lot of people I work with that have kids and talk about thier kids having cell phones and whatever.... I am at a loss for understanding this..... why would you give your kid a cell phone? And if thet are mis using it.... why wont you take the damn thing away? I never had one when I was a damn kid.... and the only reason I would ever give them one is so they could call me in an emergency once they hit driving age... and I would be damn sure that text messaging was disabled on it (you can still do that) and it would be a cheap ass phone..... hell when I was a kid I would have to walk to a damn pay phone and call collect or use my own calling card...

I do agree with the fact we are raising kids in a society that tends to promote these so called problems and a lot of it is our faults....

So you're saying that you don't believe it's a real disorder because it's all in our heads? Ok well even though you said in your other post that torrets is a "REAL" disorder, I don't think it is because people who have it should be able to control themselves from those random outbursts. And you can't argue with that because it's the exact same thing you said to me.

And the whole idea of people not "just dealing with it" like they did in the 40's and 50's is ridiculous to me, and it makes so much sense too. Back then if you showed severe symptoms you wouldn't be as likely to overcome them with will power, as you would just drop out of high school. You could easily make as good of a living as someone who only graduated high school... and nobody believed you had to have a college education (or tech school, internship, etc...), in order to have a shot at being a success. Mom probably stayed home and a lot of dads probably worked at factories or did other kinds of manual labor. But the money was good enough to have a nice cozy little life, and it was a very respectable thing to work your ass off everyday like they would. But you know what people believe today? "You better go to college and get an education or you'll end up working at a factory your whole life." Reallistically speaking, if you don't get some sort of education or certification after highs school, you're gonna have a hell of a time finding work. Oh yeah sure there's the experience factor and some people have done a job for 15 years, so employers will look at them if they don't have a degree (if they're lucky). And if you don't graduate high school or get a G.E.D., you're @!#$. The saying about not having an education, and flipping bugers at mcdonalds is very very relevant to the way the word is today. It's not fair but it's how things are.

My point? In 1950, the boy with a genuine case of ADD might of performed poorly in school, but even by dropping out of high school in a worst case scenario it would mostly be a setback. In 2010 the boy with ADD can't ignore his problems in school anymore, because if he doesn't get a college diploma nobody will want to hire him someday.

Look upnsome statistics at look at the percentage of public school kids that are currently diagnosed with one of these so called problems. I read in some mag somewhere that 1 in 150 kids are autistic BSBSBS. It's all about the $$$$. Just lok at all the new antidepressent drugs advertised on tv...(abiaphar??). Heck most of the side effects are worse than the symptoms... Resulting in yet more pills with more side effects... Etc


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