Ok I try to stay away from the War forum because well for a 20 year old I am a staunch Republican and I get frstustrated by most of the stuff that is said and then I have to swing my huge e peen around.
However I must ask, why is our Society so anti Isreal. They have always been our alley. In fact they are the only non muslim force in the middle east and yes I understand they have been waging war since they became a country this century along with the fact that they have been waging war for centuries. However their only reason for fighting is to have a place to live. The Jews are the most persecuted people in all of history and it never lets up. So back to my question why is it that the media is supporting Hamas and if not that reporting like Isreal is this big bad evil country killing for no reason. They are protecting their borders from enenmies and worse than that terrorists. Rarely do news sources report the atrocities that the Hamas are involved with.
So please enlighten me why.
Oh yea the funny thing for me is every one that has ever taken on the Jews has always lost so I am on their side.
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
I can answer your question with another question. I also don't want you to think I'm being a smartass here, I genuinely think is the best way to make you see the inherent problems between Israel and Palestine and why most people take Palestines' side even though they're run by raving psychotics.
Here's the question:
If the U.N. suddenly decided tomorrow to give half of Texas to make a homeland for Mexicans, would that bother you? Technically, that land was theirs. They used to live there before you won it back in the Mexican-American war. Read your history. Would you think it was fair? What if it gave half the United-States to American indians? After all, it was their land about 500 years ago, right?
We have given land back to Native Americans and you should see what they do with it and on it. I do know my history or at least better than most Americans. However we won a war and the Mexicans lost. The land was given to these guys and still they fight each other. There is a supposed cease fire and neither side has properly followed it however Isreal's attack was in response to an initial attack by Palastine. What I think makes people side with them is that Isreal just kills with a more technology.
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
I may sound ignorant but I think in general we should just leave that alone even if they rip each other’s head off.
Hamas is against Israel just like the rebels were against the Union.
Why is the media supporting Hamas more than Israel?
I don't know the answer to that question.
I tend to agree that it is their situation and we don't need to get involved. It just is annoying to hear people agree with terrorists and be sympathetic towards them and act as if Isreal is the only side doing anything "bad".
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
I remember a few weeks ago or months back, during an interview on the Today Show news forecast Israel stated that they had no intentions on stopping or reducing any attacks against Hamas until their issues were resolved.
I’m not sure why or what they’re both fighting for. Israel said something about tired of tolerating something…
I need more facts and do more research. It might be something political and the relationship between the two presidents
Really the only reason Isreal is ever at war is to simply be left alone by the muslims and have a country.
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
Surprisingly in the last major conflict they had(basically the weeks before Obama's inauguration),
even the Arab media was blaming Hamas for the conflict, although they where predictably slamming Israel for kicking too much ass. I've read plenty of things about the most of the Gaza citizens being pissed at Hamas, but they didn't dare speak openly against Hamas for fear of the lives of them and their families.
That's the kinda organization Hamas is, their mission is to eradicate Israel and every Jew... and probably would move on to the other nonbelievers such as Christians if they ever accomplish their primary goal(luckily they won't). They have no issue with murdering fellow Palestinians for daring to disagree even slightly, nor do they have any issue with getting school children killed because they had to set up their rocket launchers at a school. In fact, they intentionally set up in areas that will have a high civilian death count from an Israeli counter-strike, because they want the people to be OUTRAGED at Israel's brutality - and thus gaining Hamas more members and other support.
Hamas needs to be completely and utterly destroyed, no doubt about it. Even the son of the founder of Hamas(who formerly was in Israeli prison for terrorist activities but since has renounced Islam and converted to Christianity) has said as much. That being said, not all Palestinians are Hamas, and most of them are not terrorists. I support Israel's right to defend itself, but it does tend to go quite overboard pretty often. They really need to learn restraint in some situations(such as leveling all of Lebanon over 3 solders taken by terrorists), that was completely uncalled for and that kinda @!#$ only enlists more people to fight them.
I do support Israel, but its just plain stupid to pretend they never do wrong either. I think the US should support them (as we do), but given the fact that they are so dependent on our support, I think we have a chance - if not an obligation - to keep them in line. They can't afford to piss us off, so they WILL listen to us if we are assertive enough.
Knoxfire wrote:If the U.N. suddenly decided tomorrow to give half of Texas to make a homeland for Mexicans, would that bother you? Technically, that land was theirs. They used to live there before you won it back in the Mexican-American war. Read your history. Would you think it was fair? What if it gave half the United-States to American indians? After all, it was their land about 500 years ago, right?
the two do not even compare.
first, israel is smaller than new jersey, not even close to the size of texas.
second, the zionist movement had been in full gear for decades before 1948. there were already hundreds of thousands of people who had collectively, and spontaneously, moved to their former homeland. its not like the UN said "hey, you lived here once, you should do it again."
third, the jews as a people had just gone through the single worst attrocity visited on any group of people. forming an official homeland was a form of reparation for them, not a random reward for someone who didnt deserve it. it was meant to provide them with a place that they could live since no other country on the earth wanted them.
fourth, palestine was the ass hole of the middle east up until that time. none of the other countries liked them or even wanted them there. the ONLY problem that ANY country had with the formation of a new government was that it was to be populated and governed by the "wrong" religion.
personally, i like israel. they just want to be left alone. plus, the eye for an eye mentality i must say i respect. how many times have they attacked someone without being provoked first? none come to mind.
also, israel does our dirty work for us. thats why we give them weapons and money. does anyone remember israel bombing the nuclear facility in iran in the 80s? we sure as hell couldnt have done that....but israel did it for us, quite possibly saving a nuclear war (they would have been used during the iranian-iraqi war and possibly later on someone else--like us.)
^^ exactly.
Israel only ever retaliates, they never initiate. It's not their fault that they have kick-ass weapons, and smoke the Arabs every time.
I think they had every right to attack Hamas, because they were shooting 2-5 rockets a day into Israel territory and kept sending in suicide bombers to catch rides on Israeli buses. (Granted the rockets apparently never actually hit anyone, but it would still suck living your life always wondering if maybe you're gonna get hit by a stray rocket at some point in time during the day.)
Tabs' fourth point is really good also. Before the foundation of the country of Israel in 1948, that country was a desert. The Jews have been working for the past 61 years building irrigation, farms, and have actually made the country productive. The Arabs did absolutely nothing during the previous 700 or so years after the Crusades. They just let the country and infrastructure deteriorate.
I think we should support Israel 100%.
I am still trying to figure out just what is going on in that area. Someone correct me if i am wrong here. As I understand it they are fighting over who the holly land belongs to right? They have been fighting over it for hundreds of years right? Is it naive of me to think they are not likely to stop fighting any time soon?
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Willem wrote:^^ exactly.
Israel only ever retaliates, they never initiate. It's not their fault that they have kick-ass weapons, and smoke the Arabs every time.
Right, by Israel closing the trafficking of goods is not form of instigation?
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Tabs' fourth point is really good also. Before the foundation of the country of Israel in 1948, that country was a desert. The Jews have been working for the past 61 years building irrigation, farms, and have actually made the country productive. The Arabs did absolutely nothing during the previous 700 or so years after the Crusades. They just let the country and infrastructure deteriorate.
"Israel" didn't exist prior to 1948. Hence why late last year they celebrated 60 years. Jews left that land in the search for gold and wealth, some stayed, but the ones that stayed are not the European jews... the ones that run the country today.
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I think we should support Israel 100%.
I think we should support none. The reason we support Israel, is because the amount of jews in high ranked position in this country, especially in the banking system.
Wade Jarvis wrote:I am still trying to figure out just what is going on in that area. Someone correct me if i am wrong here. As I understand it they are fighting over who the holly land belongs to right? They have been fighting over it for hundreds of years right? Is it naive of me to think they are not likely to stop fighting any time soon?
Territory. European jews are trying to scoot the Arabs around the area. Will it ever stop, I personally don't think so, religion also play a big factor, but it is not the main factor. The bible talks about the ownership and jews did originally owned it, but the majority left for a search for gold. Europe placed the jews there because Palestine is a dead poor nation and it was a easier task to place them there. Today we are the only that help their cause.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
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We have given land back to Native Americans and you should see what they do with it and on it. I do know my history or at least better than most Americans.
Youre going to say you know American history better than most Americans and make a statement like that. Ignorant is more like it.
If you understood youd know that we didnt giv ethe Native Americans "their" land back. We gave them the @!#$ of America down in the desert that is almost impossible to live on and the infertile areas of the plains. Hardly equal to what they had before. And they really didnt make it any worse.
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I tend to agree that it is their situation and we don't need to get involved. It just is annoying to hear people agree with terrorists and be sympathetic towards them and act as if Isreal is the only side doing anything "bad".
Also wait. A staunch Republican who doesnt agree with using our military might to solve everyone elses problems. Wow.
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
Willem wrote:^^ exactly.
Israel only ever retaliates, they never initiate. It's not their fault that they have kick-ass weapons, and smoke the Arabs every time.
Right, by Israel closing the trafficking of goods is not form of instigation?
If the Arabs had stopped shooting rockets into Israel and bombing buses, then Israel wouldn't have closed it's borders.
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Tabs' fourth point is really good also. Before the foundation of the country of Israel in 1948, that country was a desert. The Jews have been working for the past 61 years building irrigation, farms, and have actually made the country productive. The Arabs did absolutely nothing during the previous 700 or so years after the Crusades. They just let the country and infrastructure deteriorate.
"Israel" didn't exist prior to 1948. Hence why late last year they celebrated 60 years. Jews left that land in the search for gold and wealth, some stayed, but the ones that stayed are not the European jews... the ones that run the country today.
Actually, it did, around 3500BC until 72AD with the destruction of Jerusalem. The Romans forced the Jews into Diaspora, being spread amongst all other people, because united the Jews were too much of a threat because of their strong sense of union and nationalism. It was NOT a search for gold. And yes, some did stay, but they were always treated like crap by the surrounding countries. And the European Jews did at one point in their heritage live in the land of Israel.
Anyways, how was that any reply to me? You didn't argue the fact that the Arabs did absolutely nothing for the land of 'Israel' (or w/e you wanna call it) during the past 700 or so years, and that the Jews actually turned it into something good.
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I think we should support Israel 100%.
I think we should support none. The reason we support Israel, is because the amount of Jews in high ranked position in this country, especially in the banking system.
So you think we should allow the 500+ million muslims just wipe out the maybe 50million Jews, and start the holocaust all over again, and then allow them to let the arable land return back to desert. You do know that the only purpose of Hamas is
"the complete utter and final destruction of Israel and all of it's people".
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Wade Jarvis wrote:I am still trying to figure out just what is going on in that area. Someone correct me if i am wrong here. As I understand it they are fighting over who the holly land belongs to right? They have been fighting over it for hundreds of years right? Is it naive of me to think they are not likely to stop fighting any time soon?
Territory. European jews are trying to scoot the Arabs around the area. Will it ever stop, I personally don't think so, religion also play a big factor, but it is not the main factor. The Bible talks about the ownership and Jews did originally owned it, but the majority left for a search for gold. Europe placed the Jews there because Palestine is a dead poor nation and it was a easier task to place them there. Today we are the only that help their cause.
Wrong. The English fought tooth and nail to keep the Jews OUT of Palestine after WW II, because they were worried it would lead to more war. (Google the book Exodes by Leon Uris) They wanted to keep them out because they could easily suppress the Arabs, but not so easily the Jews. The British also didn't want to give up their colony. The finally allowed them to make their own nation assuming that the muslim world would easily overrun them and turn everything back to normal. Sadly US intervented by sending weapons, and the Jews time and time again have been able to defend themselves against the attacks.
Also, the Jews were forced to spread out over the world by the Romans after the fall of Jerusalem in 72AD, and the destruction of their temple. They only decided to return after WW II so that they would be able to defend themselves against another holocaust.
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If the Arabs had stopped shooting rockets into Israel and bombing buses, then Israel wouldn't have closed it's borders.
This is asuming that both sides comes to an agreement.
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Actually, it did, around 3500BC until 72AD with the destruction of Jerusalem. The Romans forced the Jews into Diaspora, being spread amongst all other people, because united the Jews were too much of a threat because of their strong sense of union and nationalism. It was NOT a search for gold. And yes, some did stay, but they were always treated like crap by the surrounding countries. And the European Jews did at one point in their heritage live in the land of Israel.
Anyways, how was that any reply to me? You didn't argue the fact that the Arabs did absolutely nothing for the land of 'Israel' (or w/e you wanna call it) during the past 700 or so years, and that the Jews actually turned it into something good.
The Land of Israel is one thing. The term should not be confused officially with the State of Israel where it is only 60 years old.
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So you think we should allow the 500+ million muslims just wipe out the maybe 50million Jews, and start the holocaust all over again, and then allow them to let the arable land return back to desert.
Quite frankly I don't give a rats ass between the two, if one asks me about these two, my response is found here as in the first response up there^. And remeber the jews are not the only group of people that has had a haloucaust, ethnic cleansing or genocide through out history.
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You do know that the only purpose of Hamas is "the complete utter and final destruction of Israel and all of it's people".
Right. ::rolls eyes::
Willem wrote:Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
Wade Jarvis wrote:I am still trying to figure out just what is going on in that area. Someone correct me if i am wrong here. As I understand it they are fighting over who the holly land belongs to right? They have been fighting over it for hundreds of years right? Is it naive of me to think they are not likely to stop fighting any time soon?
Territory. European jews are trying to scoot the Arabs around the area. Will it ever stop, I personally don't think so, religion also play a big factor, but it is not the main factor. The Bible talks about the ownership and Jews did originally owned it, but the majority left for a search for gold. Europe placed the Jews there because Palestine is a dead poor nation and it was a easier task to place them there. Today we are the only that help their cause.
Wrong. The English fought tooth and nail to keep the Jews OUT of Palestine after WW II, because they were worried it would lead to more war. (Google the book Exodes by Leon Uris) They wanted to keep them out because they could easily suppress the Arabs, but not so easily the Jews. The British also didn't want to give up their colony. The finally allowed them to make their own nation assuming that the muslim world would easily overrun them and turn everything back to normal. Sadly US intervented by sending weapons, and the Jews time and time again have been able to defend themselves against the attacks.
Also, the Jews were forced to spread out over the world by the Romans after the fall of Jerusalem in 72AD, and the destruction of their temple. They only decided to return after WW II so that they would be able to defend themselves against another holocaust.
Correct actually. I was writing about what is happening today. As you can see I responded to him not you.
THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT ONE.
I say, give the Jews the thumbs up, there the ones living in a constant threat of kids blowing themselves up in markets.
Kill enough hogies, as they did in the 7 day war, and they may learn for a bit.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:Jews left that land in the search for gold and wealth, some stayed, but the ones that stayed are not the European jews... the ones that run the country today.
jews left because of.....gold? i certainly dont recall that part of the history books. as willem pointed out, the disapora happened because of the roman empire and their desire to destroy the jewish people by spreading them out so thinly that they would be absorbed by the surrounding populations.
][quote=Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:
The reason we support Israel, is because the amount of jews in high ranked position in this country, especially in the banking system.
wow....thats surprisingly racist as well as horribly incorrect. as stated above, we want israel there because they do our dirty work.
Wade Jarvis wrote:I am still trying to figure out just what is going on in that area. Someone correct me if i am wrong here. As I understand it they are fighting over who the holly land belongs to right? They have been fighting over it for hundreds of years right? Is it naive of me to think they are not likely to stop fighting any time soon?
I think it has allot more to do with how the Israelis oppress the Palestinian people. i.e. Israeli settlements in Gaza (the Jews go in and bulldoze communities and build their own with no legal right to the land displacing Palisinians, thats like me going to your house, kicking you out, tearing your house down so I can build my own, then getting all pissed off when you get mad and try to take your land back), military checkpoints controlling the import and export of food, services, supplies, money and the movement of the Palestinian people. Any time you oppress a people you can expect to have a militant uprising. The Israelis say they oppress because of the militants but if truth be know the militants would not exist if there was no oppression, it is a big vicious circle jerk.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
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You do know that the only purpose of Hamas is "the complete utter and final destruction of Israel and all of it's people".
Right. ::rolls eyes::
Wikipedia says:
Hamas's charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip
Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan, and the United States
More Quotes from Hamas Charter:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant provides the following quotation, attributed to Mohammed:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Hamas blames Israel for all wars:
"You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it"
more later
Harrington Esquire wrote: The Israelis say they oppress because of the militants but if truth be know the militants would not exist if there was no oppression, it is a big vicious circle jerk.
you dont actually believe that, do you? the militants exist because israel exists and they will continue to harass israel until either a) israel is no more, or b) israel finally destroys them. this is a no-brainer.
check out how many unprovoked wars/skirmishes/conflicts/attacks have been started by the israelis in the past 60 years and then re-read what you posted.
LOL spoils of war boys, spoils of war.
They won, they have the guns ( if we ever stop telling them "Don't" )
They can do what they want.
They don't have as many pansies as we do in the states.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
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I think it has allot more to do with how the Israelis oppress the Palestinian people.
The oppression that occurs to the Palestinians is nearly all(but not all) inherit from the extremist in their own society. Take it from someone that spoke to a Palestinians. Ask most of them if they would prefer the time before the first and second intifada when they could work in Israel all of them will say yes. Palestinians live in extreme poverty due to their own economy being blockaded by Israel. It’s a vicious circle you see. Now I am no where saying that Israel is 100% right, However they are more correct.
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i.e. Israeli settlements in Gaza (the Jews go in and bulldoze communities and build their own with no legal right to the land displacing Palisinians, thats like me going to your house, kicking you out, tearing your house down so I can build my own, then getting all pissed off when you get mad and try to take your land back)
The Israeli settlements are ALL occupied by extremely religious fools that believe that the glory of the land of Israel should include all of it. They are viewed negatively by Israeli Society. Most Israelis don’t know them, don’t care for them, and DON’T consider them to be part of Israel. There is a reason why now 99% of discovered settlements are removed as soon as seen. However this was not true in the past. In the past the Israeli government would provide protection to the settlements because they did not wish to face the problem of removing these settlements. So insisted they provided protection for the these backwards fools. Costing the lives of many needless Israeli soldiers including my close friend.
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, military checkpoints controlling the import and export of food, services, supplies, money and the movement of the Palestinian people.
You say military checkpoints are bad? You know military checkpoints are maybe really the most humane way of stopping something bad from coming in. Yes it is a extreme inconvenience however things could be different if there was a partner for peace. The Palestinians during the Arafat regime had a chance to get their own country. They received all of their demands beside ONE. They desired Jerusalem to be there capital and Israel to give it up. An impossible request. Insisted of accepting an offer to open free trade, no more checkpoints, no more settlements, no more blockade. Insisted the choice was made to deny that offer.
Any time you oppress a people you can expect to have a militant uprising. The Israelis say they oppress because of the militants but if truth be know the militants would not exist if there was no oppression, it is a big vicious circle jerk.
That’s half true. After the Six-day war Israel Conquered the west bank and gaza. During that time when it happened MANY Israelis fled to the west-bank and gaza to see it and buy goods. For a short time it was great. The better financed Israelis purchased different goods from the Palestinians. This created a very short economic boom for them. However this was short-lived. Old feuds return, leading to oppression of the Palestinians due to the growing fear they will continue to kill jews. If you really want to go BACK FARE during the British mandate around 1920 many jews started to return to Israel with the growing anti-Semitism in Europe, Because of this riots began by Palestinians that were afraid the Israelis would replace them eventually. If you get the idea you could go back and blame anyone for anything.
But this is fact the Palestinians never had the political aspirations to form their own country. This was their downfall. They could be living in peace with Israelis and maybe sharing some of their GDP. The Palestinians uses water from Israel, almost all electricity from Israel, telephone, cell-phone and almost all basic services from ISRAEL. Insisted of building their future they are building there own demise.
Its easy for people to talk, I have been to the occupied territories the Palestinians LIVE in horrible poverty it’s a shame, it could be different. The funny thing is in the end of the day the Palestinians are their own oppressors.
