I was just thinking about something. A lot of Americans say they don't want to pay for socialized health care, yet they'll pay twice as much to maintain the second biggest (China is the biggest) prison population in the world per capita.
Say what?
I mean, come on, stop giving 18 year old kids 20 year sentences for dealing pot and put that money in free health care. It'll pay off bigger in the end, and I'm sure your grandma will appreciate it.
Knoxfire wrote:
I mean, come on, stop giving 18 year old kids 20 year sentences for dealing pot and put that money in free health care. It'll pay off bigger in the end, and I'm sure your grandma will appreciate it.
This is such a stupid idea I don't even know where to begin. My grandma is able to pay for her health care because of her wise decision to save since she was in her 20's for retirement and the many programs already offered by our government. She would prefer to see these aspiring criminals go to jail. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
If you want to pursue this argument which appears to be a very weak "legalize pot" argument this is not the way to go about it.
Also if this is about prison costs this is far from the answer.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:08 PM
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Dude, crime isn't any worse in Canada (Or most other countries for that matter) and we have a fraction of the people you guys got in jail. So either tossing them in jail for these insanely long sentences is useless or Americans are by nature much more criminally minded than the rest of the planet. And I refuse to believe Merkin's are bad. You're good guys, even if you and the rest of the world forgets it sometimes.
Also, I'm not against long sentences out of some BS bleeding heart hippie idealism. I don't believe criminals are misunderstood and that the "man" is always wrong. Far from it. I just think that tossing people in jail for a long time when it's a minor-ish crime is a complete and utter waste of time. DUIs, Trespassing, most forms of theft, minor drug dealing, drug possession/use, that sort of thing? It just shows that the criminal's got a little ambition. Hell, with a little discipline and vision, most of these guys would make great lawyers and stockbrokers and politicians.
As for Murder, rape and much worse crimes? Surprisingly, I don't think long sentences are the answer either. You see, if one of my loved ones was killed, I'd be praying that the killer only got like 8 years. Know why? Because then it'd give me just enough time to plan some complex form of sadistic revenge. I do my own dirty work, I don't let the state do it for me, and I certainly wouldn't want the government to bankrupt itself so it could put away someone I loathed. So one day that person who'd so wronged me would just... dissapear, and the world would be a better place. And if I get caught? Hey, it's only 8 years. Totally worth it.
So you see, I'm hardly "Mr. Peace and Love" here. I'm just saying that prisons don't work when used to the almost mindless extent that you guys use it. A prison is like any form of punishment, it works best in small measured doses.
Also, free health care like we have, does have advantages. For one, you're not a slave to a low paying job you hate just because it offers the best insurance.
But my point wasn't the merit of health care or prisons. I was simply in wonder a bit at how Americans will pay out the ass for prisons as if it's nothing, then snub health care because it's too expensive. Trust me, if less people went to prison you'd hardly notice just like the rest of us don't notice. However, if you had socialized medicine, you would VERY definitely notice.
::points out the film Bowling for Columbine::
"There is no point in looking fast if your not."
The problem isn't the conditions of prison, but the sheer number of people you put there. I mean, you got one guy out of 20 in jail. What are you going to do? Make the sentences longuer? Then you'd have one out of 10. This is gonna cost less how? Make prison harder? Beautiful! How many homeless broken down old winos do you want? How many weird 60 year old guys do you wanna have to walk past on the street talking to themselves?
There's a reason why have cushier prisons today and it has nothing to do with hippie liberalism. It's because, about 100 years ago, people noticed that prisoners were coming out of jail even more vicious and crazy than when they came in and that they were breeding them to be aggressive in much the same way that a dog would become mean if you beat it long enough. Also, it cost even more to have harsh prisons since you needed more guards. Chain gangs? AWESOME. Why don't you just put big bullseyes on the guards backs so that the snipers who are coming to break out the prisoners can get a better shot? Prisoners should stay in PRISON, not be prancing out where they could escape and cost a manhunt.
Either way, it's not less expensive to treat prisoners well (They're treated too well though, I totally give you that) because it avoids riots and breakouts and murders and compulsive masturbator crazy old wino releasees. Again though, it all depends on the guy. If the guy is a lifer because of murder or something, might as well just toss him in a hole. But lesser criminals like burglars should be allowed better priviledges.
But still, we don't have the prison population you guys got and the world didn't end. In fact, our crime stats are no worse. So... why do you accept it? Why do you, in fact, prefer it to health care?
Wade Jarvis wrote:Knoxfire wrote:
I mean, come on, stop giving 18 year old kids 20 year sentences for dealing pot and put that money in free health care. It'll pay off bigger in the end, and I'm sure your grandma will appreciate it.
This is such a stupid idea I don't even know where to begin. My grandma is able to pay for her health care because of her wise decision to save since she was in her 20's for retirement and the many programs already offered by our government. She would prefer to see these aspiring criminals go to jail. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
If you want to pursue this argument which appears to be a very weak "legalize pot" argument this is not the way to go about it.
Also if this is about prison costs this is far from the answer.
I swear you must have brain damage. Go get your balls cut as to not pollute the gene pool. Victimless crimes should not be illegal. If you want to screw up your own life then go for it, after all it is a free (for the most part) country. Knoxfire is right if we spent as much money on health care as we do the idiotic war on drugs we would all have free health care. Republicans are great at waging war on nouns. Why do Republicans thing it is there job to make laws that infringe on our freedoms. i.e. Patriot Act, Abortion
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
i was with ya till the abortion part harrington lol. i feel we should make dope legal. but i think the real truth in noxfires post is he wants us to go to a govermant ran healthcare system so all the canadian doctors stop coming to our country to make money.
me, im against goverment ran healthcare, for one most programs ran by the goverment never seem to be worth a damn. and from the canadians i have talked to about the healthcare i dont like what i hear. i'd rather pay a bit more and keep what i have myself.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
The Health Care problem in Canada could be easily solved by having a two tier system. Better doctors and faster visits for people who pay, and bare bones treatment (like we have now really) for people who can't. Then have doctors work 12 hours a week in the free sector in order to be allowed to make the big bucks in the paying sector. Nice, simple, efficient and fair.
I love Capitalism. I even think (seriously) that it's saved billions of lives by ending the concept of war for land and power because you can make as much money through simple commerce nowadays as Napoleon expected to make by "expanding his empire". So you'll never hear me harping on it. But this is health we're talking about, people's lives, not cars or video games. I don't believe that a person's right to live or quality of life should be infringed so that other people can make money.
Wade Jarvis wrote:Knoxfire wrote:
I mean, come on, stop giving 18 year old kids 20 year sentences for dealing pot and put that money in free health care. It'll pay off bigger in the end, and I'm sure your grandma will appreciate it.
This is such a stupid idea I don't even know where to begin. My grandma is able to pay for her health care because of her wise decision to save since she was in her 20's for retirement and the many programs already offered by our government. She would prefer to see these aspiring criminals go to jail. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
If you want to pursue this argument which appears to be a very weak "legalize pot" argument this is not the way to go about it.
Also if this is about prison costs this is far from the answer.
You're such a retard I don't even know where to begin. Why exactly should a DOPE dealer get time? Why is dope bad again? How are they harming anyone? I'm going to find dope whether or not my current guy gets time. It's just harder and more expensive after too many people get shut down. Your grandma can suck on my dick if she doesn't like me toking on my own time. It's MY life and it's MY choice and I'll be damned if some @!#$ is going to try and tell me what to or not to put in my body.
The point he was making is money is wasted when people just out to make a buck and not harming anyone (other than perhaps the people who are WILLINGLY buying their products, freedom of choice?) are stuck in jail for long periods of time for no reason other than they got a dope charge, or they @!#$ up some other minor way. People @!#$ up, make bad decisions, and do wrong things. Don't put them away for 1/2 their life. Put them away for a few years WITH SOME SCHOOLING maybe. Just an Idea.
wysiwyg wrote:i would say they bang, they don't really pound so much. but if
you want to bump, then they will bump and hit real hard and a lot good. 
LOL
Knoxfire wrote:The Health Care problem in Canada could be easily solved by having a two tier system. Better doctors and faster visits for people who pay, and bare bones treatment (like we have now really) for people who can't. Then have doctors work 12 hours a week in the free sector in order to be allowed to make the big bucks in the paying sector. Nice, simple, efficient and fair.
I love Capitalism. I even think (seriously) that it's saved billions of lives by ending the concept of war for land and power because you can make as much money through simple commerce nowadays as Napoleon expected to make by "expanding his empire". So you'll never hear me harping on it. But this is health we're talking about, people's lives, not cars or video games. I don't believe that a person's right to live or quality of life should be infringed so that other people can make money.
two tier system sounds nice, we kinda have it now. you have your good private hospitals, and then you have your free clinics and such for those with no money. im sure you'd have allot of people arguing that just because someone has money they shouldnt get to see a higher class doctor while their stuck waiting for a d+ student doctor. u get my drift
i can understand that but what reason is there for someone to spend hundreds of thousands of their own money, spend 7+ years in strenous education to make the same as a guy flipping burgers, ive always been one to say people should be paid for what their worth and saving lives for me is pretty high up on the list. how far is the goverments responsibility go in making sure someone has a good quality of life? should we supply food because people are starving, should we provide housing because people are freezing in winter who are homeless? one person's quality health is another persons hell. capitalism i believe is what pushes people to find newer better ways of finding cures new machines etc etc. now i dont say that the system is good. it does need reform. but id prefer to reform the system rather then put it in the goverments hands. that just scares me.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
Whatever wrote:Wade Jarvis wrote:Knoxfire wrote:
I mean, come on, stop giving 18 year old kids 20 year sentences for dealing pot and put that money in free health care. It'll pay off bigger in the end, and I'm sure your grandma will appreciate it.
This is such a stupid idea I don't even know where to begin. My grandma is able to pay for her health care because of her wise decision to save since she was in her 20's for retirement and the many programs already offered by our government. She would prefer to see these aspiring criminals go to jail. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
If you want to pursue this argument which appears to be a very weak "legalize pot" argument this is not the way to go about it.
Also if this is about prison costs this is far from the answer.
You're such a retard I don't even know where to begin. Why exactly should a DOPE dealer get time? Why is dope bad again? How are they harming anyone? I'm going to find dope whether or not my current guy gets time. It's just harder and more expensive after too many people get shut down. Your grandma can suck on my dick if she doesn't like me toking on my own time. It's MY life and it's MY choice and I'll be damned if some @!#$ is going to try and tell me what to or not to put in my body.
The point he was making is money is wasted when people just out to make a buck and not harming anyone (other than perhaps the people who are WILLINGLY buying their products, freedom of choice?) are stuck in jail for long periods of time for no reason other than they got a dope charge, or they @!#$ up some other minor way. People @!#$ up, make bad decisions, and do wrong things. Don't put them away for 1/2 their life. Put them away for a few years WITH SOME SCHOOLING maybe. Just an Idea.
i dont have a problem with weed i never did. i always liked it alot lol. but if u legalize it, do u legalize crack and cocaine as well? they are natural products also, not as much but they are. problem comes in when crack heads and others start stealing and killing to get there fix. unacceptable. main reason weed was made illegal is because of illegal alliens from mexico comming and taking jobs here. people wanted them out so they attached the drug to them, as a result it was made illegal. didnt change anything though. just like it didnt change anything when they attached crack to black men. i say legalize weed only and tax the @!#$ out of it(like there already doing with ciggarettes). use the taxes to fight other more dangerous drugs.
"There is no point in looking fast if your not."
Quiklilcav wrote:The biggest problem with costs of the CJ system is the fact that inmates continue to get more and more priveleges. Not only deos it cost money everytime we extend another privelege, but it lessens the actual punishment factor of being there in the first place, so it becomes less of a deterrent. We can thank the ALCU for this, because of their pushing matters too far.
Let's face it, generally speaking, the people who are the most afraid of going to jail are the people who haven't been there. The people who get thrown into these light security cushy prisons aren't so afraid of going back. Hell, free room and board, free TV, free meals, free health club, etc. etc. can seem pretty damned good to people in certain walks of life.
Now, before anyone says "they're not all like that", of course not, but the point is that none of them should be like that. Going to prison is supposed to suck, so that you don't ever want to go back. The CJ system is supposed to deter crime, not give someone an OK place to live. Joe Arpaio got it right. If you aren't yet familiar with him, look it up. The ALCU would love to shut him down, but he is quite popular. He also makes very valid arguments against his treatment being inhumane: The people in his camps are criminals, and people complain about the conditions being difficult, yet they still aren't as tough as those the men and women of our armed forces live with, when they volunteered to be there, to serve their country. Why should the criminals enjoy softer living than them, and at the expense of the taxpayers?
One more thought on the original statement: maybe if more states adopted guidelines like Maricopa County, such as reinstatement of chain gangs, we would save money on labor in other areas of expense, and put that money into the healthcare system.
im glad we agree on something.
"There is no point in looking fast if your not."
Harrington (Fiber Faber) wrote:Wade Jarvis wrote:Knoxfire wrote:
I mean, come on, stop giving 18 year old kids 20 year sentences for dealing pot and put that money in free health care. It'll pay off bigger in the end, and I'm sure your grandma will appreciate it.
This is such a stupid idea I don't even know where to begin. My grandma is able to pay for her health care because of her wise decision to save since she was in her 20's for retirement and the many programs already offered by our government. She would prefer to see these aspiring criminals go to jail. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
If you want to pursue this argument which appears to be a very weak "legalize pot" argument this is not the way to go about it.
Also if this is about prison costs this is far from the answer.
I swear you must have brain damage. Go get your balls cut as to not pollute the gene pool. Victimless crimes should not be illegal. If you want to screw up your own life then go for it, after all it is a free (for the most part) country. Knoxfire is right if we spent as much money on health care as we do the idiotic war on drugs we would all have free health care. Republicans are great at waging war on nouns. Why do Republicans thing it is there job to make laws that infringe on our freedoms. i.e. Patriot Act, Abortion
You failed to see my point which is no surprise since you are so narrow minded you often do miss the point. You often try and spin my words making yourself look like a fool. You don't even know where I stand on legalizing pot!
My point was very simple. I will reiterate it for you one more time since you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Wade Jarvis wrote:Harrington (Fiber Faber) wrote:Wade Jarvis wrote:Knoxfire wrote:
I mean, come on, stop giving 18 year old kids 20 year sentences for dealing pot and put that money in free health care. It'll pay off bigger in the end, and I'm sure your grandma will appreciate it.
This is such a stupid idea I don't even know where to begin. My grandma is able to pay for her health care because of her wise decision to save since she was in her 20's for retirement and the many programs already offered by our government. She would prefer to see these aspiring criminals go to jail. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
If you want to pursue this argument which appears to be a very weak "legalize pot" argument this is not the way to go about it.
Also if this is about prison costs this is far from the answer.
I swear you must have brain damage. Go get your balls cut as to not pollute the gene pool. Victimless crimes should not be illegal. If you want to screw up your own life then go for it, after all it is a free (for the most part) country. Knoxfire is right if we spent as much money on health care as we do the idiotic war on drugs we would all have free health care. Republicans are great at waging war on nouns. Why do Republicans thing it is there job to make laws that infringe on our freedoms. i.e. Patriot Act, Abortion
You failed to see my point which is no surprise since you are so narrow minded you often do miss the point. You often try and spin my words making yourself look like a fool. You don't even know where I stand on legalizing pot!
My point was very simple. I will reiterate it for you one more time since you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. The whole idea of let's not send people to jail for breaking the law because it cost money is stupid.
Hey tool bag, my point is that drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place. My point was very simple, I am surprised in your infinite wisdom you didn't pick up on that. You glance at peoples posts and don't read them fully and I am the one with a reading comprehension problem. You crack me up I don't think I have ever in my life seen a person who crys so much when people don't agree with him. You are a classic Republican, "if people don't see things my way they are either stupid, ignorant or blind." Wade you are a joke. The only person in here that consistently looks like a fool is you.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
Awright! Everyone CALM DOWN! Or else I'm tossing y'all in jail!
