When did Iraq ever attack us? Did I forget something? Do they even have a military anymore? 14 year olds with Machine guns, not really a threat to take over this country
I hear this spewing of complete bs about once a week for the past 5 years and I'm about to have a tumor from the stupidity. Someone give me a good reason I should believe this @!#$, convince me. The only thing I see is a complete waste of tax money that could be better used to benefit citizens of this country instead of some other country thats hated us for centuries. That and alot of people giving their lives for no purpose.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
"Our sons and daughters, fighting for our freedom in a country whose name they can't even pronounce."
One of many mindless slogans specifically designed to elicit an emotion. No different than "Like a rock." or "Ford Quality is Job 1". First off, I doubt the kids in Iraq don't know how to pronounce the name. It's two freaking syllables E and Rahk. Even Lynne England could probably pronounce it.
It's also no different than other political/sociological slogans like "These streets used to be safe.", "This used to be a free country!", "Marriage is a sacred union.", "Love is all you need." and various other moronic statements that may sound well thought out in theory, but are in reality enormously dumb.
People love them though. Which tells you a lot about their smarts.
It's also how oftentimes you'll see people totally obsessed with problems that don't seem to exist. Like Hunger in America. You walk through even the POOREST street anywhere in North America and you're going to see a majority of big fat muffakers. Yet, everytime they talk about poverty, they trot out the old standard about hunger. They even have breakfast programs in schools now. Doesn't matter that these chubby kids eat two breakfasts for no reason. Doesn't matter if the problem is still relevant or not. Doesn't matter that hunger stopped being the face of poverty about 50 years ago. It's a nice simple mindless slogan and people like that. Lack of decent HOUSING is the face of poverty and has been for quite some time: 10 kids in a one room appartment. But it's easier just to give them food they don't need than do something about the real problem.
It's also how, on the other end of the scale, the conservatives talk about "Kids today turning to abstinence and giving up the free love lifestyle of their parents' generation." I saw that one in the news in like 2001. Ahem... teens' parents are the free love generation? What is this? An ad for fertility treatments? I'M the generation that is the parent to teens today and I was thought all the gooey details about AIDS in school. Literally you couldn't go a day without hearing that your penis was gonna drop off if you put it in a vagina. If they could have put up posters that said SEX = DEATH they would have. Is it any wonder that my generation loves internet porn?
Anyway, the sad point is that the people most shouting about the soldiers fighting for freedom really haven't given it a lot of thought at all. They're just repeating something that sounds sensible up to a point and that's all.
What are the soldier's fighting for? To serve the will of their leaders. That's what you do as a soldier. It's no different than the Samourai or Knights before them. You dedicate your life to King and Country.
Hey Rodimus... I can't give you a reason..... I think you have it pretty much 100% correct. The crap the media is feeding you is all BS for the most part.
There really isn't anything that the United States can benefit from by staying in the middle east other than stealing their oil.
Hmm no I dont think we are benefitting from that either its tripled since the invasion
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Dude I have bitching about this for a few years. I hate media propaganda and the mindless idiots who believe that crap.
I have had a lot of heated arguments with people in person about this very same subject.
Quote:
What are the soldier's fighting for? To serve the will of their leaders. That's what you do as a soldier. It's no different than the Samourai or Knights before them. You dedicate your life to King and Country.
Thats true...... when I was in the military.... thats the way it was..... you didn't question the reason behind your orders (at least out loud)... you have to deticate your entire being to the military in order to succeed in a military carreer.... it wierd how you can make yourself not afriad to walk into certian death not knowing the reason (or at least ignore the fear).
I was that way for a while.... and then my 154 IQ got in the way and screwed it up for me and now I'm an injured Vet.... thats pretty much givin up on the VA.
We need to come home now, screw the impact on the middle east.
This is not really any different than Vietnam, Korea, Grenada, etc.
Further proof that the US is just the democratic spin of imperialism.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Hmm no I dont think we are benefitting from that either its tripled since the invasion
The price of a barrel of oil has not tripled.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Wade Jarvis wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:Hmm no I dont think we are benefitting from that either its tripled since the invasion
The price of a barrel of oil has not tripled.
The war started 5 years ago. Oil was $23 per barrel in September of 2003, as of yesterday oil was $117 per barrel. So yeah it is not 3x the price it is 5x the price. Wake up and smell the sweet crude.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
Oh and to answer Rodimus' question. No one in Iraq is defending my freedom nor are they making this country a safer place to live. As a matter of fact ever since the war on terror has started we have lost a whole bunch of our personal freedoms. (Patriot Act)
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
Wade Jarvis wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:Hmm no I dont think we are benefitting from that either its tripled since the invasion
The price of a barrel of oil has not tripled.
Bull.. it's over tripled since 9/11. It WAS about $28-29 a barrel.
http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm
This morning it was trading at $118 a barrel.
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
That's triple.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
As far as "defending american freedoms" I think we can all agree:
- Iraq as a country (and Saddam Hussein) had nothing to do with September 11, 2001.
- Iraq had more to do with trying to force the creation of a friendly power in the middle east.
- Iraq was more secure before the invasion up until about a year ago, but even now, it's not what you could call secure, or even livable.
- Pulling out of Iraq before it can adequately defend, feed, and shelter itself is going to ensure that there will be another foray into the country.
At this point, it was a big f**k up to invade on the flimsy evidence the US had. The justification was a sham or an outright lie, the invasion was planned extremely poorly.
However, at this point, running away from the problem isn't a viable solution. It will just create bigger problems in the future. No, the defence of freedom line is just political double-speak for "heading off future problems now." At this point, I'm wondering if the next President/Congress/Senate will latch on to the idea that the US can't really do this with a coalition of the willing, and own up to Dubya's folly and ask for help from the UN in an organized fashion.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:As far as "defending american freedoms" I think we can all agree:
- Iraq as a country (and Saddam Hussein) had nothing to do with September 11, 2001.
- Iraq had more to do with trying to force the creation of a friendly power in the middle east.
- Iraq was more secure before the invasion up until about a year ago, but even now, it's not what you could call secure, or even livable.
- Pulling out of Iraq before it can adequately defend, feed, and shelter itself is going to ensure that there will be another foray into the country.
At this point, it was a big f**k up to invade on the flimsy evidence the US had. The justification was a sham or an outright lie, the invasion was planned extremely poorly.
However, at this point, running away from the problem isn't a viable solution. It will just create bigger problems in the future. No, the defence of freedom line is just political double-speak for "heading off future problems now." At this point, I'm wondering if the next President/Congress/Senate will latch on to the idea that the US can't really do this with a coalition of the willing, and own up to Dubya's folly and ask for help from the UN in an organized fashion.
qft, but other than that, the only reason we're in Iraq is so W can finish the job his daddy couldn't
Quote:
The war started 5 years ago.
Actually.... it's been almost 7 years dude.... do the math.
Pulling out now will not hurt us as a country.... in order to do the things that the current presidency is talking about will take at least another 20 years if it's even possible.... and I highly doubt that it is.
Eventually we will realize that we can't win or actually accomplish anything more... or at least anything worthwhile and we will leave the middle east.
For all of the bleeding heart pussies that say we cant just pull out now because it will hurt the people in the middle east.....
SCREW YOU AND SCREW THE FREAKING DUNE COONS THAT YOU ALL SEEM TO CARE SOO MUCH ABOUT.
We need to worry about ourselves.... screw the bastards over there.... no other country in the world really gives a crap what happens to us so we need to look out for ourselves. When it comes down to caring more about what is better for us and our troops and caring about the @!#$s over there.... if you live in the US.... you answer better damn well be the former of the two.... if not.... you need to be strung up from a tree.
It's time that we as a country grew a freaking pair of balls.
Id say I'm sorry for using the word "dune coon" (which is a very common term used by those in the armed forces) but I'm not..... I'm just so tired of listening to all these "we have to think of our impact" bastards and it's pissing me off.
Well, not to get into arguments...
But when you can't find logic in the reason behind a war, like in Iraq, then it's because we simply aren't being shown the whole picture. There was a lot of backdoor deals going on in Iraq and who knows what got the governments panties in a bunch? Who knows what agreement was not met or what happened? Hell, we don't even know how much oil there really is. A little or a lot? It's impossible to tell because there's no way in hell that they'd let people like us know. This whole affair is filled with so many lies and misconceptions that it's not even funny.
As for the right of wrong of the invasion. Less people have died in Iraq since the start of the war then during the Clinton administrations sanctions. Don't believe me? Go check it out. A million children starved in Iraq from 1993 to 2003 and only 90,000 have died since 2003. I'd say that's an improvement. Sure, the violence is up, but at least nobody has to watch their kids' bellies inflate while flies peck at their eyes anymore.
It may not be the popular thing to say, but sometimes war is better than peace.
As for "Nobody caring about the United-States." Dude... you guys have always been friends to many countries, but only conditionally, which isn't really friends at all innit? The United-States has only helped people when it suited them and profited them, not out of some idealistic vision. Now, don't peg me as a Yankee hater. I'm nothing of the kind. I love America and what you guys are all about. It's your government and business people that have always been the two errant turds on the otherwise delicious apple pie that is the United-States of America. The American people are a great bunch and they'd do what they could for other countries, it's your leaders that pervert this into something foul that gives the USA a bad name unfortunately.
And weebel... Now now, don't be mean. You've just trained yourself to dehumanize the enemy and that's not a good thing because you can take up that habit stateside. Best to break it. Besides, you're a good guy. You and me aren't friends or anything and we don't really agree about... well anything... ever, but that doesn't mean that I can't see your qualities. Don't let an US vs. Them mentality poison your civilian life, you'll pay for it dearly later and that'd be a shame since smart and thoughtful people are a rarity these days.
Knox: I like to look at it this way:
Which country took in a lot of our citizens on 9-11 when their planes couldn't fly into the states.
Canada.
Sure, i may make some occasional jokes about you guys, but that proved that you guys are quite4 alright in my book. I doubt Americans would do the same.
Still, All of the wars we've been in since WWII (except Gulf War 1) have been an attempt to extend and globalize out influence--mostly to stop the spread of "communism" (back then, be it communism or american capitalism, they were both different dresses on the strumpet known as "imperialism"). Gulf war 1 was basically, as I know it, Kuwait asking us to kick Iraq out, and we did just that.
I honestly disagree with the "pulling out would be bad". I think we need to sooner or later. At this point I think the best option for everyone around is to take the Hockey solution to one guy running another and let them solve it themselves. I think the only thing we need to do there is provide humanitarian aid to the populace, not military presence.
I think we were much better off as a nation when we were isolationist, but that's just my opinion.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper Of The Light™ (Strazca)]
I think we were much better off as a nation when we were isolationist, but that's just my opinion.
Agreed
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
Weebel wrote:
For all of the bleeding heart pussies that say we cant just pull out now because it will hurt the people in the middle east.....
SCREW YOU AND SCREW THE FREAKING DUNE COONS THAT YOU ALL SEEM TO CARE SOO MUCH ABOUT.
We need to worry about ourselves.... screw the bastards over there.... no other country in the world really gives a crap what happens to us so we need to look out for ourselves. When it comes down to caring more about what is better for us and our troops and caring about the @!#$s over there.... if you live in the US.... you answer better damn well be the former of the two.... if not.... you need to be strung up from a tree.
It's time that we as a country grew a freaking pair of balls.
Id say I'm sorry for using the word "dune coon" (which is a very common term used by those in the armed forces) but I'm not..... I'm just so tired of listening to all these "we have to think of our impact" bastards and it's pissing me off.
Weebel, slurs aside: You're in Iraq and Afghanistan NOW because you didn't TCOB 16 and 22 years ago respectively.
You want to pay $8 a gallon? Drop Iraq.
You want a breeding ground for terrorists for future attacks on US troops abroad and civilians at home? Drop Iraq.
Since when was it an American value to cut and run?
Since when was it an American value to leave the job half-finished?
Since when was it an American value to not fix and make right what you f**ked up?
I don't like the premise of the invasion. No secret to that... but, leaving the Middle east to its own devices would just make the present situation worse in 20 years. This is something that has to be fixed, no matter how fraudulent the original premise was.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Matt, unfortunately those are american values 2-4, #1 being give me something for nothing 'cause i deserve it.
for the most part i agree with GAM & KOTL, also Weebel technically this is still an extension of the initial invasion of the 90's, at least that is how combat veterans were classified when I got out a few years back; not that i agree with that.
IDK......
I guess you would really have to understand where I'm coming from I guess.
When I think about what our people are going through over their all I really want is for it to end that's all.
I understand the the natives in the middle east have it really bad.... and a lot of them appreciate our presence their.... but I really can't see this ending up in a "good" way for anyone. I mean.. stuff is so messed up over there that it is going to take decades to even begin fixing it....
Sure we ended Saddam's rule and everything... but in doing that.... all we really did is completely obliterate any form of government they had and spun them into chaos and the people in the middle east don't know what to do.... and neither do us.
Sure pulling out now might be worse for the people over their in the short term... but it would be better for us and that's what matters to me.
It's the same idea that you put your families needs in front of strangers..... you protect yourself and the ones you care about.... and let the others destroy themselves if they feel fit..... at least the ones close to you will be OK.... its human nature...
I realize that things are bad over there and if we leave right now things will most likely get worse for the people that live in the middle east..... but I can live with that as long as our country... and our troops are better off. This is not a self sacrifice that I can see worthy of doing..
Some of you have to understand what I'm saying.
What I was trying to get at Weeble was that pulling out now would make things worse in the long term for the US than staying in.
Hell, it'd make it worse in the short term too.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
I am an Iraq war veteran and I took my duty very seriously. But I can't remember anything that I did that would impact people back home other than keep my buddies alive.
I was refering to the price we are paying at the pumps for gas. It is not three times what is was although it will be soon as the cost we are paying for gas has not caught up with what we are paying for crude oil yet. but that is a whole different topic.
I do not like commenting on the war. I do not feel any of us are in any position to have an informed say about it. We do not have all the all the information that is privy to the president now and we did not have the information he had at the time. None of us even know for sure what information he was given then. We do not know what his advisors are saying now to him now behind closed doors. All we hear is the dog and pony show and right vs left from the politicians. This makes us all armchair critics.
We need to keep in mind that hindsight is 20/20. Even now we only see what the leftist media shows us.
I think Knoxfire hit the nail on the head when he said this:
"But when you can't find logic in the reason behind a war, like in Iraq, then it's because we simply aren't being shown the whole picture. There was a lot of backdoor deals going on in Iraq and who knows what got the governments panties in a bunch? Who knows what agreement was not met or what happened? Hell, we don't even know how much oil there really is. A little or a lot? It's impossible to tell because there's no way in hell that they'd let people like us know. This whole affair is filled with so many lies and misconceptions that it's not even funny."
Weebel:
Think about it this way. This war has been the least deadly to US soldiers of any war. They signed up knowing they could be sent to fight in a war regaurdless of if they beleived in it or not. They knew that the possibility they could loose their life serving there country. This said I have two brothers and a close friend who are in the military. They alll three are wanting to go to Iraq. My older brother has already been to Iraq once. Don't get me wrong I am not implying that the majority of those serving in the armed forces want to go just that the few I know do. It is still an all voluntary army there are no drafts.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
in response to the title:
no matter where a soldier goes, either home or abroad, he is defending your freedom because you are free to stay home. he's out there doing what you chose not to. that is freedom.
felt a little poetic this morning. don't know what's wrong with me.
