Simple question, and I think it deserves an explanation.

Because of this ports debacle, you're seeing a sea-change in the political landscape... Rubber-stamp Republicans are either growing a pair of testicles or are deserting a sinking ship like rats (take your pick), and it seems that none of the Bushies from the last 6 years are saying much about the president above a mutter.

Still behind him? Didn't like him to begin with? Think he's no longer the American Messiah?

State Your Case.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I was talking about this with my dad today. He and I are both straight edge Republicans but we both agree Bush is a fu*king idiot.

No time to go into details...I'm out for the night

I supported him. Starting to lose faith however. He no longer communicates with his people. Borders are still wide open. Spending is insane.

Isnt his approval rate at 30% now?

My good friend was a Bush or die type, even he is wavering now


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It's between 36% and 40%... which is actually lower than GHW Bush's lowest approval ratings (worst he had was 43%, after he told the nation to read his lips).

I ask this because I saw the numbers go from the basement past rock-bottom and tunnelling fast to the molten core of the earth, and then you see (I forget, Congress?) vote 82-2 to stop the ports deal, and now the Republican party is starting to really fracture deeply. I've never seen that kind of swarming away in politics... EVER. It was really startling.

I think you're going to see the Democrats polarise and finally start taking apart the republicans... Maybe a couple of the smaller political organisations will gain some foot ground.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

i never liked him in the first place

Well Gam you know I was a big supporter of Bush. But in light of recent stupidness on his part I fear my support is waivering greatly. On a side note Bush did not know about the port deal till after it was said and done I do however think he should have openly condemed it rather then support it. Now not only do we have Iraq and Afganistan and North Korea and China to worry about NOW lets start threatning Iran as well ! Dear God at this rate we're headed for another world war ! And as its been said before I do not know how WW III will be fought but I know WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

Like I said I'm haveing serious doubts as to the leadership of this country. Serious doubts indeed.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Jack: I'd think the fact that Iraq's been hovering in the throes of pre-civil war tensions for a little over 2 years, and the fact that the original plans for Iraq were at best deeply flawed and myopically optimistic (100,000 troops to pacify a nation with troops that had the training to go underground???) would illustrate that the administration, while capable, isn't really doing what it needs to get the job done.

I also think that going over GDP by about 15% or so per year every year for 6 years after having come in with the very best of economies is telling of the fiscal inability of the president and Republicans at large to keep the books balanced and the US's world political position in check.

I don't think (though I really REALLY hope I'm right on this one, Bush has made a liar out of me before) that he'd tip off a large scale nuclear exchange, that's one bridge that I would think he'd cross without a thought.. and that really worries me. Neo-cons have no problem using military actions, war, and subterfuge to achieve their own ends.

I also think that he balks at the new Hershey NOLA rebuilding plan, but that's okay... he doesn't care about blacks either.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

^ ^ ^ Well they're not part of the master plan you know. Katrina was actualy a man made storm developed by the govt under king Bushes orders to try and kill all the blacks. But it didn't quite work as well as hoped. KIDDING ! Not getting into Bush hates blacks with ya Gam.

As for the rest of Dubyas "ideas" for the world I'll be ready for the worst but pray for the best. Right now thats all any of us can do as a full on nuclear war wouldn't just destroy us and whomever we were fireing them at but would take the rest of the world with it.
And I'm not ashamed to say that with the level of tensions building between us and the above mentioned countries does have me a bit worried. Rightfuly so I believe wouldn't you agree ?





Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

This may come as a shock to all those who've called me a liberal in some posts, but I voted for Bush the first time and am STILL a registered Republican.

I registered Republican because I believed them when they said they wanted to stop the "big government liberals". Well, they are now the party of big government. Huge deficits and debts, all financed by countries we cannot fully trust (Saudia Arabia, China, etc). If you think two towers going down is scary, pray that they never pull the rug out from under our economy.

Republicans are being so tight with their unity, that congressional oversight is non-existant. So many things to investigate, so little effort. Republican congressmen, many of the same men who did good things with Newt and Clinton to give us surplusses, are now doing us wrong, very wrong.

Bush promised to resolve illegal immigration. Not. Tax cuts for the wealthy have done what?

I really could go on and on.

McCain for 08!


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Jackalope wrote: I do not know how WW III will be fought but I know WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

That's a seriously good quote.


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AGuSTiN wrote:

Jackalope wrote: I do not know how WW III will be fought but I know WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

That's a seriously good quote.

Thank you AGuSTiN, I have my moments I guess. I'm said to admit I too put him into office and I too believe that the dems have grown our govt too too big and was hopeing the reps would do something about it. Instead its like you said they are running this country into the ground. And Bush stop the illegals? Oh come on AGuSTiN if he did that who would he get to work his ranch for him? I have one word for you NAFTA. He may not have started it but boy he sure is running with it!




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Personally I think his defense spending is the thing that's killing us. We're paying millions to protect and re-build iraq, when that millions of dollars could be spent on Education and keeping Social Security alive.

You're assuming i had confidence in him in the first place.

From the job he's done in the past 6 years i'm wondering how the smeg we're going to recover from it.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

I've only been old enough to vote in the past 2 elections...

First one I missed the deadline to register.

Second one, I registered, and voted for Kerry. In PA, we had 2 choices... Bush or Kerry. I voted Kerry.

Bush's spending is WAYYYYY out of control. We shouldn't have went into Iraq without UN backing (I personally don't think it was THAT dire we went in there to begin with.) We were SUPPOSED to go into Afganistan to find Osama. Well... where is he?

I'm tired of the government stripping away our rights, and people not standing up and doing anything about it.

I'm tired of Bush using "terrorism" and shoving it down our throats to keep the American people living in fear every day, and using it as an excuse to impede upon our rights. (See Patriot Act).

Terrorism this, terrorism that. If you don't do this the terrorists win... if we do this the terrorists win. Blah! If anything, the Bush administration has ticked off more of our allies and non allies more so than before... and if anything under Bush's "rule", we're even more vulnerable now than we were before Bush.

Our government is too big and out of control as it is.

What ever happened to a government "Of the people, BY the people, and FOR the people"??

Still nothing is done about our healthcare system...

Tax cuts for the rich,... and screw the hard working lower and middle class Americans.

And now a possible invasion on Iran?!!?!??! Are they out of their minds?!?!?!?!

Illegal immigration?? What's been done about that?? Sure, immigrants will do a lot of jobs that most Americans consider "beneath them"... I have no problems with someone wanting to come here to make a better life for themselves and family. But do it the right way!! And at least TRY to learn English??

Ugh I could go on and on... but I'm going to stop here. But I swear, if Jeb Bush runs for President, and gets voted into office... I'm moving to Canada or Australia. We cannot handle another Bush in office.

i voted for kerry

Angel, Bush is saying the same type stuff now that was said in WW I and WW II about Germany and if don't do whatever they will win. Its an old tactic and it works everytime. Just play on and feed on the fears of the common man or woman and they'll let you do whatever you want.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Lose faith in bush?! NO WAY!!

I have had full faith in Bush since he was elected the first time(even before 9/11). Full faith that he would continually @!#$ this nation over and generally @!#$ this nation up. He has proven that my faith in him was never misplaced. In fact he has greatly exceeded my faith in his abilities(to @!#$ up everything). I now see that , if anything, I did not have nearly enough faith in him.

What does amaze me though, is that it actually took the port deal, ironically of all things(being practically the least of what he has done wrong), to make people see him for the idiot he is.

And for those who thinks Bush cares nothing for black people, I must disagree. For all his faults, I don't think Bush is "racist" at all. He is "class-ist." He doesn't care for POOR people. It just so happens that the majority of black people in America happen to be poor.

I would say that it is the new racism, except for the fact that its not new at all. Class-ism is as old as civilization itself. The rich(rather people BORN rich) are above the common trash. This used to be called "nobility." Now that term isn't widely used, but the ideals and practice are quite the same.




I've never heard of this "part throttle" before. Does it just bolt on?

The terrorists have one, Angel--they all reside on Capitol Hill or in the White House.


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

It's a relief to see that people on the right are finally starting to waiver from supporting Bush. I thought I would never see it. It seemed for the longest time that he could do nothing wrong in the eyes of his core supporters, but even they are starting to waiver. It's amazing it took a port deal to cause this. Not failing to find the man responsible for 9/11. Not lying to the entire country about Iraq and how Saddam was in cahoots with bin Laden and had WMD's just waiting to destroy us. Not breaking the law and conducting spying without a warrant (a warrant, i might add, that was astoundingly easy to obtain). Only a port deal could begin to take him down. The funny part is that our ports are run by numerous other foreign companies. Granted this is the first company run by the country of origin, but the Bush administration constant tactic of instilling fear in us about those evil Arabs has now backfired on them (there was a decent amount of sarcasm implied in that, just so you know ).

By the way, I, in no way, want Bush impeached. Why you ask? Because then Cheney would be in charge and that scares me even more.

Tristan I'd liken it more to the straw that broke the camals back then one particular thing.
I do not blame him for 9 / 11 that would just be silly ! The WMD thing is IMO still up in the air as their was evidence to support it and now Saddam loyalists are coming forward claiming they went to Syria ( who really knows ). The wire taps are done to thoses calling Iran or Iraq so unless you fit that profile I doubt they're even gonna bother with you. The port deal was indeed a biggie IMO. I mean first he says to be on the look out for ANY suspicious activity at all and then the govt goes and hands over control of a HUGE doorway to our county to someone who has been directly linked to terrorism and they wondered why we all yelled about it.

No I don't think it was one thing that did it but all of the above. And I agree with you about Cheney that man isn't wrapped to tight! I think one too many heart attacks has cut off his brain from oxygen long enough to cause permanent damage! It may not be his fault but damn do we have to put him in if something happens to Dubya?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.

Only if you can implicate him in misdoings as well... If he is impeached as well, then it would fall to Condolezza Rice as Sec State.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I do blame Bush for 9/11. I remember Condi Rize speaking to Congress when they were investigating 9/11 and her being asked the name of a memo and her saying it was called Bin Laden attack on American imminent or something like that. They knew he was going to attack and maybe even if they did everything in their power to thwart an attack it might have still happened. But the fact remains they practically ignored the intell and didn't do much of anything.
And in reference to your WMD argument, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. Look at the Downing Street Memos. They were planning this war for more than a year before any of us even heard a whim about how Saddam was a huge threat to us and we had to invade. Sure, there was some intell that supported the idea that Saddam had WMD's but most of it wasn't reliable and there was so much more that said they didn't have jack. Even the British weren't convinced about the intell (i.e. the Downing Street Memos). We had Saddam contained and he wasn't a threat. There are no WMD's. All of the agencies that investigated and searched Iraq gave reports saying that there were no WMD's and that Saddam had not been developing any programs or trying do anything with WMD's. Yes, Saddam was an evil, evil man, but we had no business being in there. Bush lied to all of us for whatever reason. The fact that they were planning this more than a year before we knew anything about it and searching for a POLITCAL JUSTIFICATION for the war at that point is proof right there. No one seems to take that into account. Just like everything else, the media and the administration ignored the Downing Street Memos.
And I am not arguing NSA spying. There are reason it has to be done, but why can't they get the warrant? It's a very, very simple requirement. But just like everything else, this administration ignores the rules and do what they want. And if you think that a government who can spy on whomever they want won't use that power, you are sadly naive. I'm sorry, but I don't think we should just take Bush's word that he is only spying on people who are terrorists or involved with terrorists. Get the frigan warrant because if it's someone you should be spying on, there is no reason the FISA court won't grant it. It's as simple as that.

Tristan: you might want to read the 9/11 report in repose. It doesn't absolve the Bush Administration of all culpability in the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks, but, it does point the finger at them for not doing what they could to stop actions like that, given what they knew from CIA briefings.

Also, regarding Iraq's WMD's, The ISG (or Duelfer) Report details the Post-invasion Iraq Survey Group's findings regarding claimed Weapons of Mass Destruction. The basic outcome of it was that the US, UK, and other countries that were involved in the action, had no intelligence of any real veracity. Regarding the Hussein Confederates that are saying that the CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear) stockpiles and assets were shipped into Syria or the Bacca valley in Lebanon, I think it's a load of bunk.. you don't pack up something like that when the area is surveilled like no other with satellite and U2 fly overs... I'm sorry, I'm just not buying their story. They were complicit and are using these claims to first distance themselves from their roles under the Hussein Dictatorship (if they were coerced, they have only to say that, no need to invent stories) and second, create a possible place for themselves as at least major power brokers or, next-in-line for the dictatorship of the country after a civil-war.

The only other thing I have to say about your post: dude, Whitespace is your friend

Keeper: I knew you didn't. I meant the ardent flag-wavers. I haven't seen Pretjah, mrgto, or NfamousZ24 weigh in yet... Either they've seen the light or don't want to face the facts.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

I wasnt old enough to vote at either election, but i wouldn't have voted for him the first time and i dont see how anyone could have wanted him in their for a second term...