For all those that do not beleive..
"New Scientist Reports on a remarkable runaway process of global warming that has been going on in Siberia for the past few years. 'Western Siberia has warmed faster than almost anywhere else on the planet, with an increase in average temperatures of some 3C in the last 40 years.' As a result, a million square kilometers (the area of France and Germany) of frozen peat bog have been found to be melting, according to Russian and international scientists. This releases methane, a potent greenhouse gas, which contributes to further global warming."
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725124.500
Things are getting bad, scientists from all over the world are recording drastic habitat changes over the last 24 months.
Time for everyone to let their lawn grow and stop driving their cars... could you imagine if the whole world did that, not that its feasable, but cmon, do you want to get your next paycheck, or do you want the world to be abel to still support human life in the next 30 years??
Read other reports too not just this one. The Earth goes thru climate shifts all the time
Several million years ago there was not much of a poler ice region, Then the earth cooled down and we had an ice age. Now its warming back up a little doesn't mean
the sky is failing. Those peat bogs weren't allways frozen you know. A bog is a marshy
area like a swamp. How many swamps do see around here that are frozen? Look I'm
not saying that things aren't warming up but they do every so often. The temperature goes up more ice melts putting more fresh water into the oceans this dilutes the salt content those slowing down the ocean currents when they slow down enough things start to cool down and the ice re-freezes and things start all over. We have no idea what causes these tempature changes. Scientist theroize that its because of all the emisions put forth by cars and fossel fuels. Well the only problem with this theory is that The air quailty has gotten better since the 1900's. Dont believe me? Ok then how many coal fired anythings are still around? In loundon in the1900's there would be days you couldn't even see the sun the smoke was so bad. Things aren't that bad now
so what makes them think this is a new problem? Its political scare the people bad
enough and you can get what ever you want. Relax man the worlds not ending any time soon. Truth is noone knows when it will and they should stop guessing.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
^ Wow... for once I agree with jackalope...
That is scary.
While I don't think we should panic just yet, the problem is real. Yes the Earth goes through these cycles, the question is... Is that what's going on here and now? or did we cause it? The other thing is, human did not endure that last round of hot/cold cycles and we are unlikely to be able to survive the next round either. If we want to live we need to study this and be prepared for the impending distasters. We can't stop it, but we can try to survive it.
Next, check your facts, we burn more coal now than ever and we're not slowing down.
So there ya go.
PAX
I want them to tell me the Earth is getting hotter when I'm freezing my @$$ off in the winter.
History repeats itself. Its been getting hot and cold for ever since the earth was in existence.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
If only everyone could have taken Physics w/ the teacher i had my senior year in highschool. He is prolly the most intelligant man i have ever came into contact with. Went to Rosh Holman, Stanford, Indiana (for his teaching degree). He's worked in reserach facilities all across the country(a few huge ones in Cali just can't name them) and has over 2 dozen patents on numerous things. Anywhoo my last week in his class he went over a 5 hour presentation about how much global warming is BS. The earth does go through these climate shifts its happened since earths existince. I just wish i still remembered 1/4th of what he said. He brought out methods fo how to check the earths Temp through maybe carbon dating, i'm not sure but it showed virtually no change in the earths temp.
2006 Cobalt SS 2.4L 9.6 @74mph 1/8th mile w/2.28 60ft
God I'm so glad you guys don't all think the sky is falling.
And BzE whats up with that? You agreed with me that your car good look great with Honda Sport and TRD stickers on it. What gives?
The earth goes thru cycles it will be O.k. I realize we wener't around for the last big changes but come on if neanderthal man could survive i'm sure we'll be just fine.
coal consumption may have increased but the level of poluants produced has dropped
big time. last I saw the sun is now visible in london.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Hahahaha wrote:While I don't think we should panic just yet, the problem is real. Yes the Earth goes through these cycles, the question is... Is that what's going on here and now? or did we cause it? The other thing is, human did not endure that last round of hot/cold cycles and we are unlikely to be able to survive the next round either. If we want to live we need to study this and be prepared for the impending distasters. We can't stop it, but we can try to survive it.
Next, check your facts, we burn more coal now than ever and we're not slowing down.
So there ya go.
PAX
I think you should double check your facts. While we are consuming more coal now, more advanced technology is coming around to clean it out before it reaches the air. For example:
Educate Yourself
on the right are various technologies that have come about in the recent years to help keep the atmosphere clean from burning coal and to make the process safer.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
OKAY...
For one, there were periods where the earth, like Mars, had NO polar ice cap in the summer months of the respected hemisphere...
Second, the shifts take ćons. In ways, we're coming out of an ice age--the temperatures during the Mesizoic era were on average higher than they are now.
Third, this happens from a "wobble" in the earth's orbit--it varies from 21 degerees to about 24 degrees.
Even though there is an impact, you have to think of the resillence of Earth...which is a hell of a lot more resillient than us hairless apes. Take this itno consideration: The ongoing eruption of St. Helens makes it Washignton State's biggest polluter right now--and it's erupting small. Think of what Pinatubo, Kiluea, and other larger eruptions do. Imagine the effect Krakatoa had--or Mazama (which dwarfed Krakatoa), or even Yellowstone Caldera.
The earth has been through--and recovered from a lot worse than us. If we are doing anything, we are accellerating the climate to a level that will amke it inhospitible to US, not to everything. Which means...well, we die out, and we slowly stop polluting. Since eery form of pollution we have made has come from some byproduct of the earth, it's slowly reabsorbed and pulled back into ore, the ecosystem recovers like it always does, and life goes on--but not for us.
To quote Carlin, "The planet is not going anywhere...WE ARE!!"
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Hey, all I'm suggesting is that we figure out how to survive what's coming. I doubt that humans have contributed much to climate change, but that won't make it go away. Climate change is a reality and if we have any hope of surviving we had better get with the programme. I wasn't suggesting that we polute more now, I was refuting a statement that we don't burn coal anymore...
Quote "Dont believe me? Ok then how many coal fired anythings are still around?"
The answer to that question is.. Plenty.. We burn plenty of coal, more now than ever before.
I didn't say that it was dirty or clean, only that there's more of it. Seriously, critical thinking is required for effective debating.
Anyway, back on topic. Climate change is a reality, so we need to figure out what we can do about it (squat all), and how to survive it.
We don't really want to "survive" the way prehistoric man did. That would mean a 90% population decline and a few scattered people living on the equator.. Not really our best option (I hope).
PAX
Uh, 2nr thats what I said I hope you were not refering to me.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
we may not be meant to survive it, hahaha.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I don't believe in Global Warming and never will.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]we may not be meant to survive it, hahaha.
If that's true then we'll fail in our attempts. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
PAX
I doubt global warming is as huge a threat as most people want it to be.
We don't have enough facts, and the science is being skewed by funding money.
When I start seeing comprehensive tests done in double-blind format... I'll accept the "facts" as gospel.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
While I wouldn't worry about the future of our species in the next century, global warming is happening. While yes there are natural cycles of warm and cold periods, we are just adding to it with our pollution. You can't deny that we burn insane amounts of fossil fuels and all that CO2 has to go somewhere... and this CO2 will help to increase the global temperature. I learned all about this is Physical Oceanography and we are actually quickening the Earth's natural warming fairly significantly.
<img src="http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/GLOB_CHANGE/ipcc2001_figs/fig3.gif">
The thing I worry about is the deep ocean circulation. Like they explained in the movie The Day After Tomorrow (although the time period was ridiculous) an increase in average ocean temperature by only a few degrees will shut down the production of North Atlantic Deep Water (NADW). This water sinks at the poles and flows in the deep sea all over the globe and rises up in the Pacific. This not only keeps the ocean circulated but has a major impact on the climates of North America and Europe. This shutdown could occur 10 years from now, maybe 1000, who knows? It is also a fact that the recent El Ninos have been the most intense in recorded history (1982). Many people think that climate change caused by us is affecting this cycle too. Plus the mass extinction among amphibians in tropical regions is directly blamed on global warming.
Idiot Bush and his supposed "advisors" don't know what they are doing when it comes to this. They are more worried about big business making money than protecting the environment.
jackalope wrote:Uh, 2nr thats what I said I hope you were not refering to me.
I was making your statements more elaborate for Hahahaha.
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Madjack wrote:Like I said before, building an engine like ours (2.2 or 2200) is a painstaking chore , since there is so few custom made parts. It's frustrating to me too, but that's what I like about doing this engine, it's the challenge.
Ok my bad he does seem to need help somtimes. More coal is used today then ever before huh? And used in a manor that is as poluting as it was over 100 years ago?
When was the last time you saw a coal fired locomotive being used in regular service by a railroad?
When was the last time you saw a truck delivering coal in the middle of winte to heat a house?
Last one and its a good one too.
When was the last time that the sun was blocked out over a major city do to regular coal usage making the day as dark as night?
Here is a fact The consumption of coal has decreased so dramaticly in the private sector it is all but forgotten about. And the few coal fired power plants that are left
create nowhere near the amount of smoke from coal that an intire city used to.
But enough about coal Its only one type of fossil fuel and besides noone can say definatively that the burning of fossil fuels is the reason for global warming. We as a species have not been around long enough to be able to draw such a conclusion.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
I didn't just make it up. I don't depute that there is less polution hanging over the cities, and I don't despute that personal consumtion of coal is all but forgotten about. The figures don't lie. There are plenty of coal fired generating plants and they are burning more coal than ever. here it is again.
that is from
this site
I agree that we are burning cleaner coal in a cleaner way. I do argue the fact that coal consumption is at its highest level ever and continues to rise, just as the chart shows.
While we cannot determin the amount that we have affected the climate, we cannot deny having some impact. We pump hundreds of millions of tons of CO2 into the air every year, for more than 100 years and counting. We had to have had some impact.
That doesn't matter anyway. We shouldn't focus on what went wrong and weather we caused it. We need to figure out how to predict what's going to happen and then try to figure out how we plan to deal with it. Desertification (land turning to desert) is ocurring at an alarming rate. Are we going to lose all our farmland? Are we going to lose any farmland in North America? How bad is it going to get? How will we feed ourselves? Will there be terrible storms? etc etc etc.
PAX
Hahahaha wrote:Hey, all I'm suggesting is that we figure out how to survive what's coming. I doubt that humans have contributed much to climate change, but that won't make it go away. Climate change is a reality and if we have any hope of surviving we had better get with the programme. I wasn't suggesting that we polute more now, I was refuting a statement that we don't burn coal anymore...
Quote "Dont believe me? Ok then how many coal fired anythings are still around?"
The answer to that question is.. Plenty.. We burn plenty of coal, more now than ever before.
I didn't say that it was dirty or clean, only that there's more of it. Seriously, critical thinking is required for effective debating.
Anyway, back on topic. Climate change is a reality, so we need to figure out what we can do about it (squat all), and how to survive it.
We don't really want to "survive" the way prehistoric man did. That would mean a 90% population decline and a few scattered people living on the equator.. Not really our best option (I hope).
PAX
you type that like it's a bad thing. who knows maybe a 90% drop in population could do some real good.
jack: China's main power generation method is coal fired generators. Vietnam and Laos also rely heavily on Coal due to lack of hydro-electric or nuclear plants... Most 3rd world countries (which makes up over 80% of the world) use coal in greater abundance than other power generation methods.
For the last one: if you've been to Tokyo/Kyoto/Hamamatsu Japan, or Seoul Korea or a bunch of other west pacific rim countries with large cities, you'll have noticed that there is a low-lying smog that is quite literally at street level... it's comprised mostly of spent coal fumes and fossil fuel soot. That, has been tested and verified. <a href="http://www.grist.org/advice/books/2004/09/28/motavalli-cloud/">Asian Cloud</a>
Spitfire:
Carbon dioxide makes up roughly 1/3 of 1% of the atmosphere. (sorry, I had to use a <a href="http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:e6WBMO1H3woJ:www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system_and_atmosphere/atmospheric_composition.html+atmospheric+carbon+dioxide+makeup&hl=e
n&client=firefox-a">Google Cache</a>
CO2 levels have risen 30% since the beginning of the industrial age.. which is less than 1/10th of a percent increase.
1/10th of one percent over 150+ years doesn't make me worry.. the junk science that is shouting about rapid/abrupt atmospheric changes does.
Polution is a problem, and that's no question... but decreasing CO2 emissions won't do much to halt global warming, if anything, it may just cause more problems (and I'm not talking economic) than it solves.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Hahaha, Wow! We can agree on somthing after all ! I knew we could. about the polution we agree and as for the deserts becoming bigger yes again I agree with you
100% . But don't forget the de-forestation thats happening all over the world. Those trees that are being clear cut re-cycle the CO2 back into oxygen. Not to mention the effects of the trees being removed has on the land when it rains hard. Why do you think those people in cali have so many problems when it rains with mud slides? Because
there dumb asses didn't want to mess up there view of the ocean. Well now that your house is in it dumb ass can you see it O.k.
I'm not a tree hugger by no means but people do need to start thinking or the Earth will look like mars when were done with it.
Its actualy nice not to have to argue with you for a change.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
Hit post instead of preview.. oopsie!
The thing is that even though there has been an increase, we don't have the data to know what effect we're having on the environment yet.
This abrupt climate change idea is pretty non-sensical.. we're averaging 1.2 degrees farenheit over average. Can anyone tell if it's 72, or 73.2 minute over minute? I don't think so. If you want to point out glacial retreat, there are currently 8 studies of glacial retreat and advancement... 8 glaciers out of over 1600 in the world. Hardly conclusive.
While it is a work of fiction, I'd read State of Fear by Michael Crichton.. there is pertinent information that is in fact, well researched and backed up by stated science journals.
I think that it would be a sage idea to stop burning garbage and perhaps cut down on fossil fuel usage, not because of the soot, but because of the other compounds that are released. it makes sense to limit our footprints until we know exactly what it is that we're doing, but frankly, curtailling all fossil fuel burning activites is pretty impractical.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Gam those are tird world countries. They are usualy at least 100 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to technology. Take China for example they are just now begining to phase out steam powered locomotives for disel powered. There about
100 years behind or exparmenting with diesel power and by the time they drop the last fire from a steam locomotive it will prob be 2050. Technology is getting better and reducing emisions but it can not happen over night. But if you wait a little while they'll catch up.
Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.
i wonder if nick ever reads his threads after he posts...
